Jump to content
2turbofords

Adding bypass to existing coilover set up recommendations

Recommended Posts

YoMy car rides good and is set up correctly as far as I'm concerned but I got a  deal on a set of  2.5 3 tube bypasses I would like to mount out back. trying to balance out the car and having bypasses in the front and not in the back is kind of silly looking to me.  Question is.... should I take any valving out of the coilover at the time of installation of bypasses, or should I just let all the nitrogen out except for 50 psi and try it the way it is currently valved?  Your thoughts? This is the way my car currently sits in pic

IMG_20181229_114835797_HDR.jpg

15533089303262135342263110940990.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha I'm sure I didn't type the yo part, but I'm going to leave it alone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ran a light stack in the coilovers to take some of the load off the bypass

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, 2turbofords said:

Haha I'm sure I didn't type the yo part, but I'm going to leave it alone!

Oh man too bad. I though to myself “this guy is a gangsta” 

jk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

You  want to remove all valving from the coil overs.   If not then you have two shocks fighting each other.   Let the  bypass do it's thing on compression and rebound and let the coil overs manage your ride height only.    Depending on how heavy your car is will equate how much gas to put in the coil overs.

Edited by fastcorvairs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say you should have a shock expert dial in your coilover valving and bypass valving to work together and share the load of damping the spring compression and rebound. 

The coilover can give you speed sensitive valving and the bypass can give you position sensitive valving as well. If you take the valving out of the coilover you're losing a great deal of damping  while keeping the weight of the shocks. Why have the weight of the coilovers on the car just to mount the springs? They can act as shocks as well, since that's what they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With shock technology today

i would sell them all and buy internal bypass shock and keep it single.

unless you planning on doing a bunch of fab

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CHRIS J said:

With shock technology today

i would sell them all and buy internal bypass shock and keep it single.

unless you planning on doing a bunch of fab

I love doing Fab, plus I have a good plan of attack to get it all done. I plan on leaving some valving in the coilover just didn't want to spend Any money rebuilding perfectly good coilovers if not needed. Thanks guys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, punkur67 said:

I ran a light stack in the coilovers to take some of the load off the bypass

X2....this is what I do too.

~jw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you like how it rides with the coil over now  then I would recommend:

1) Put the same valving that is in the coil over into the bypasses

2) Put a light stack in the coil over compression and a dump valve in the rebound. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you know you are opening up a can of worms of shock tuning.   light valving in coilovers and then tune the bypasses.  Just take time to dial in but I am sure you will love the difference.  Just wish there was a good suspension tuner that would go out to the dunes and dial in cars.  I have had my car suspension tuned a few times my someone that thinks they are great tuners and wasted 1500 with them and then I had bilstien tune my car in the dunes for two days.  HOLY MOLY what a difference.  Just like engines if you don't have a good shock tuner then it really doesn't matter what you bolt on your car.   I have seen coilover cars fun just as good and dialed as a bypass car.  I have seen A lot of bypass cars setup not correctly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, fastcorvairs said:

You  want to remove all valving from the coil overs.   If not then you have two shocks fighting each other.   Let the  bypass do it's thing on compression and rebound and let the coil overs manage your ride height only.    Depending on how heavy your car is will equate how much gas to put in the coil overs.

While removing all the valving from the coilover is certainly an option. I would not recommend it.  Since you already have the luxury of knowing approximately what valving worked well for the car before,    " I would"  give the coilover say  1/3 the comp and  very light rebound valving stack and the remainder to your bypass. This will give your Bypass the ability to be in the  " Fine tune" mode vs "heavy lifting" mode.  I disagree with you fastcorvairs  and here is why..  in that if in this scenario if the new bypass is the same size as the coilover  which you are suggesting he strip the valving from. If you removed the valving from the coilover  and just move it to the bypass, &ran the same valving; you'd end up with a net LOSS is total overall damping thoughout the stroke unless the bypass  tubes were ran completely closed. Since anytime the piston is between the bypass ports ,”bypass zones” oil is "bypassing" the piston undampened ; whereas in a coilover it would dampen equally 100% of the stoke To overcome that fact, you'd need to run significantly stiffer valving which will give you undesired harshness, build unnecessary shock heat and fade, and which leads to more frequent shock service to replace more heavily worked and broke down oil. A set up that has the coilover doing same of the work set up properly , will give you  a smooth plush ride, that provides a significant step up in total damping , that will last even longer than your current single shock. That's my .02

Edited by SCHMIDTY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Put a nice flutter in compresson and rebound in coil over.  Then those shocks do very little in chop and short motion but come in play during big hits to aid bypass.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, SCHMIDTY said:

While removing all the valving from the coilover is certainly an option. I would not recommend it.  Since you already have the luxury of knowing approximately what valving worked well for the car before,    " I would"  give the coilover say  1/3 the comp and  very light rebound valving stack and the remainder to your bypass. This will give your Bypass the ability to be in the  " Fine tune" mode vs "heavy lifting" mode.  I disagree with you fastcorvairs  and here is why..  in that if in this scenario if the new bypass is the same size as the coilover  which you are suggesting he strip the valving from. If you removed the valving from the coilover  and just move it to the bypass, &ran the same valving; you'd end up with a net LOSS is total overall damping thoughout the stroke unless the bypass  tubes were ran completely closed. Since anytime the piston is between the bypass ports ,”bypass zones” oil is "bypassing" the piston undampened ; whereas in a coilover it would dampen equally 100% of the stoke To overcome that fact, you'd need to run significantly stiffer valving which will give you undesired harshness, build unnecessary shock heat and fade, and which leads to more frequent shock service to replace more heavily worked and broke down oil. A set up that has the coilover doing same of the work set up properly , will give you  a smooth plush ride, that provides a significant step up in total damping , that will last even longer than your current single shock. That's my .02

This is a lot to digest.   This is my story and i'm sticking to it. 

When I first got this car (HRT) two seat 2000LB's from BBB it never road wroth a toot.  The shocks were supposedly done by the best in Glamis, with his stickers on every one of them.  I fought tail pan drag, pogo sticking and nose diving up to this year when I said enough is enough, I'm making a change.  I had read on here about not valving the coil over if you run bypass's.  So before I came to Yuma for the winter I bought two new coil overs, rebuilt my by passes and and re valved them, striped the valves from the coil overs, put new springs on to achieve the ride height I wanted .   I made one  fine tune with the by pass valve's and they are now all mid way in there travel.   The car rides like a dream, no divot's and I can bail off a three foot embankment and land as smooth as butter.  I can not say this will work for everyone but it has worked for my car.  I like your post and it sounds like the car should have came to you in the first place for shock tuning instead of Pound Sand . Carry on.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, SCHMIDTY said:

While removing all the valving from the coilover is certainly an option. I would not recommend it.  Since you already have the luxury of knowing approximately what valving worked well for the car before,    " I would"  give the coilover say  1/3 the comp and  very light rebound valving stack and the remainder to your bypass. This will give your Bypass the ability to be in the  " Fine tune" mode vs "heavy lifting" mode.  I disagree with you fastcorvairs  and here is why..  in that if in this scenario if the new bypass is the same size as the coilover  which you are suggesting he strip the valving from. If you removed the valving from the coilover  and just move it to the bypass, &ran the same valving; you'd end up with a net LOSS is total overall damping thoughout the stroke unless the bypass  tubes were ran completely closed. Since anytime the piston is between the bypass ports ,”bypass zones” oil is "bypassing" the piston undampened ; whereas in a coilover it would dampen equally 100% of the stoke To overcome that fact, you'd need to run significantly stiffer valving which will give you undesired harshness, build unnecessary shock heat and fade, and which leads to more frequent shock service to replace more heavily worked and broke down oil. A set up that has the coilover doing same of the work set up properly , will give you  a smooth plush ride, that provides a significant step up in total damping , that will last even longer than your current single shock. That's my .02

Well said, excellent explanation! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is refreshing to be able to have a discussion,and maybe not agree on everything without taking it as an attack on their respect.. Just good old fashion dialogue.. We used to have a lot more of that on here years ago....But maybe perhaps in the dialogue some who have been misinformed,or who have misconceptions can learn or understand a bit of how shocks work.. I say “ “bit” as there are soooo many variables, and changing one or two things often effects the whole equation.. After doing it for years, I still continue to learn.. There is also no one “right” answer.. if there were , every “Nascar” would be set up exactly the same way.. What is right for my driving style, might not fit yours & or conversely..  With as many components are at play in a dual shock set-up(coilover & external tube bypass) ,it is conceivable that you could get roughly the same end Performance, but accomplish it with two completely different setups.. They’d both have their own different and unique characteristics & advantages and disadvantages.. Shock tuning is really the art of balancing “ying” & “yang” .. Because typically as you begin solve ,fix, or address one aspect, you begin to sacrifice somewhere else.. So it becomes a battle of balance.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, SCHMIDTY said:

It is refreshing to be able to have a discussion,and maybe not agree on everything without taking it as an attack on their respect.. Just good old fashion dialogue.. We used to have a lot more of that on here years ago....But maybe perhaps in the dialogue some who have been misinformed,or who have misconceptions can learn or understand a bit of how shocks work.. I say “ “bit” as there are soooo many variables, and changing one or two things often effects the whole equation.. After doing it for years, I still continue to learn.. There is also no one “right” answer.. if there were , every “Nascar” would be set up exactly the same way.. What is right for my driving style, might not fit yours & or conversely..  With as many components are at play in a dual shock set-up(coilover & external tube bypass) ,it is conceivable that you could get roughly the same end Performance, but accomplish it with two completely different setups.. They’d both have their own different and unique characteristics & advantages and disadvantages.. Shock tuning is really the art of balancing “ying” & “yang” .. Because typically as you begin solve ,fix, or address one aspect, you begin to sacrifice somewhere else.. So it becomes a battle of balance.. 

Yes and Yes. And no I did not take any of your post as and attack on my ability to  rebuild shocks.  

Shocks are and art so to speek.  Everyone has there own driving style and one that works for me won't work for some others.  I have been rebuilding my own shocks for some year's now and I still am learning.  I'll use some of your advice and go back into my coil over's this summer and maybe do some light  valving to see what happens.  I will  undoubtedly change things up a bunch when I install a torsion bar to help keep the car a tad flat'er on the corners as one of my up grades.   Ok I'll stop mucking up toturbofords post now.   I'm sure he as gleaned some insite from  it by now.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, fastcorvairs said:

This is a lot to digest.   This is my story and i'm sticking to it. 

When I first got this car (HRT) two seat 2000LB's from BBB it never road wroth a toot.  The shocks were supposedly done by the best in Glamis, with his stickers on every one of them.  I fought tail pan drag, pogo sticking and nose diving up to this year when I said enough is enough, I'm making a change.  I had read on here about not valving the coil over if you run bypass's.  So before I came to Yuma for the winter I bought two new coil overs, rebuilt my by passes and and re valved them, striped the valves from the coil overs, put new springs on to achieve the ride height I wanted .   I made one  fine tune with the by pass valve's and they are now all mid way in there travel.   The car rides like a dream, no divot's and I can bail off a three foot embankment and land as smooth as butter.  I can not say this will work for everyone but it has worked for my car.  I like your post and it sounds like the car should have came to you in the first place for shock tuning instead of Pound Sand . Carry on.  

You could have (still can) gt the same or better results by using both shocks to share the damping load for all of the reasons SCHMIDTY listed above. 

Sorry to hear of your bad tuning experience, it seems pretty common when people get honest about their experiences. Unfortunately, most people don't post about it, for whatever reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys ,carry on I'm soaking it all up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried light valving in the coilover on a 2,100 lbs 4 seater..  Didn't work.  It forced the bypasses out of the sweet zone.  It forced me to set 1st stage compression at zero clicks.  And zero clicks on the rebound.  The valving was still too stiff.  Teeth shattering stiff.   After wasting all that time and money on shims I replaced all the coilover shims with  spacers.  Now the car is like velvet on small chatter and big bump is well managed with the bypasses adjusted right down the middle of the range with 3 clicks between stage 1 and stage 2 compression.  I remember how right I was when I was explaining it all to King.  How I was going to spread the load and heat between the coilover and the bypasses by lightly valving the coilovers.  They told me it doesn't work that way and I didn't want to listen.   However in the end I can now disassemble/assemble a King shock blindfolded with one hand tied behind my back.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Preview Post

More Links

©2001 GlamisDunes.com.
All rights reserved.

×
×
  • Create New...