Jump to content
Richard H

Internal bypass shocks

Recommended Posts

Started so as not to hijack thread about bypass shocks. Mentioned were internal bypass shocks in that thread. Who has done this and how did it work for you? Also would you add compression adjusters to them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Richard H said:

Started so as not to hijack thread about bypass shocks. Mentioned were internal bypass shocks in that thread. Who has done this and how did it work for you? Also would you add compression adjusters to them?

Are you asking about what to do with valving if you are converting from a conventional shock to an internal bypass?

If thats what you are asking and the current valving is good you should increase valving so the bypass can work properly. If you kept the same stacks and opened the bypass tubes the valving would be too soft. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, punkur67 said:

Are you asking about what to do with valving if you are converting from a conventional shock to an internal bypass?

If thats what you are asking and the current valving is good you should increase valving so the bypass can work properly. If you kept the same stacks and opened the bypass tubes the valving would be too soft. 

Not adding internal to the existing coilovers , but replacing coilover singles shocks with them. Keeping car single shock setup. Valving in my opinion would be  determined afterwards.

Edited by Richard H

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Richard H said:

Not adding internal to the existing coilovers , but replacing coilover singles shocks with them. Keeping car single shock setup. Valving in my opinion would be  determined afterwards.

My comment converting may have been the wrong wording. I meant converting the car by replacing the shocks to IBP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, punkur67 said:

My comment converting may have been the wrong wording. I meant converting the car by replacing the shocks to IBP

Yep, what I'm wondering. If the results are as good as those who run 2 shock setups on each corner. Looking at keeping weight down. 

Edited by Richard H

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Richard H said:

Yep, what I'm wondering. If the results are as good as those who run 2 shock setups on each corner.

They can't be, unless you use a 3" IBP shock or larger.

Let's say you have a 2" coilover on the front of your car. You replace it with a 2" IBP shock. Now you have a shock with roughly the same volume of oil and roughly  the same damping ability, but you still have to open it up to change any valving.  What did you gain? I don't see any advantage here.

Let's say you have a 2" coilover and a 2" bypass on the front and they're sharing the load equally. You have the equivalent damping volume of a 2.82" dia. shock and the convenience of being able to adjust the external bypass tubes yourself based on terrain and number of passengers and not having to pay someone else to tune it to his preference. That's invaluable.

If you could adjust them from the outside, I'd consider them as having some sort of advantage.

I added bypasses to the front of my rail and I'm very happy with the fine tuning ability it gave me. The other thing I would suggest is adding a 2nd rebound tube or a gold tube to the rear bypass. The 2nd rebound tube really makes a huge difference in controlling the rear end over whoops at speed. A gold tube can help do the same thing while also adjusting compression at ride height (it flows in both directions) so it cuts way down on chop and harshness at ride height, while allowing you to tighten up compression on big jumps or hard hits.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dunes are smooth enough (even on their worst day), and the season we generally run in cool enough, that large diameter shocks for heat control aren't necessary IMO.  The diameter should be tailored to the weight of the car for valving availability.  Even on a super hard run through lot of chop, I've yet to see a shock too hot to touch, which is way below designed operating temperature for the good shocks (300*+).

Running Baja or other open desert type thing?  Sure.  In Glamis, unless all you do is drive from Wash 30 down Wash Rd to Sand Highway to Olds and back at speed, or are woefully undervalved, I doubt fade resistance is a concern.  Just my $0.02.  

IBP would help a ton for anyone as the biggest plague for Dune machines is bottoming resistance from G-outs.  Set it up light enough to be sorta comfortable in the chop/RZR bumps and handle whoops well, it's usually too light to smash the G-outs at speed under throttle (esp since most buggies are trailing arm with little AS geometry).  Heavy enough to smash G-outs, bring a kidney belt for the chop, or do like we do and try to stay away from the heavily-trafficked areas.  IBP gets you that little push over the edge to 11 for the G-outs without beating you up through the chop and throwing an impromptu yard sale in the whoops. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How may compression and rebound zones do these IBP shocks have?

Sounds like they're magical!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Dunes are smooth enough (even on their worst day), and the season we generally run in cool enough, that large diameter shocks for heat control aren't necessary IMO.  The diameter should be tailored to the weight of the car for valving availability.  Even on a super hard run through lot of chop, I've yet to see a shock too hot to touch, which is way below designed operating temperature for the good shocks (300*+).

Running Baja or other open desert type thing?  Sure.  In Glamis, unless all you do is drive from Wash 30 down Wash Rd to Sand Highway to Olds and back at speed, or are woefully undervalved, I doubt fade resistance is a concern.  Just my $0.02.  

IBP would help a ton for anyone as the biggest plague for Dune machines is bottoming resistance from G-outs.  Set it up light enough to be sorta comfortable in the chop/RZR bumps and handle whoops well, it's usually too light to smash the G-outs at speed under throttle (esp since most buggies are trailing arm with little AS geometry).  Heavy enough to smash G-outs, bring a kidney belt for the chop, or do like we do and try to stay away from the heavily-trafficked areas.  IBP gets you that little push over the edge to 11 for the G-outs without beating you up through the chop and throwing an impromptu yard sale in the whoops. 

Kind of my thought just wonder who done it. Also statement prior seems to imply more oil equates to better ride. I have not found 2.0 ibp shocks, just 2.5 and my change would be from 2.0 to a 2.5 shock. Maybe it's doing apples to oranges and just the larger shock will mask any real change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

the biggest plague for Dune machines is bottoming resistance from G-outs.  Set it up light enough to be sorta comfortable in the chop/RZR bumps and handle whoops well, it's usually too light to smash the G-outs at speed under throttle (esp since most buggies are trailing arm with little AS geometry).  Heavy enough to smash G-outs, bring a kidney belt for the chop, or do like we do and try to stay away from the heavily-trafficked areas.  

I like the way thats worded. Thats is exactly how I'm trying to set my car up.

From watching the Fox video it looks like IBP is like a 2 tube BP? I like the idea of keeping the weight down but seems like there would be more control using a regular BP 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Richard H said:

Kind of my thought just wonder who done it. Also statement prior seems to imply more oil equates to better ride. I have not found 2.0 ibp shocks, just 2.5 and my change would be from 2.0 to a 2.5 shock. Maybe it's doing apples to oranges and just the larger shock will mask any real change.

Yes, you noticed that. I never said anything about fade resistance. I don't know what Rockwood was reading, but it wasn't anything I wrote.

The smoothest riding vehicle I've ever ridden in was an Alumicraft dual sport. I'm pretty sure it had 2.5" coilovers and 2.5 bypasses in the front and 2.5 coilovers and 3.0 bypasses in the rear. We went up and down Olds at 85 or 90 mph and launched it off of the lip at the bottom. It was amazingly smooth, we almost didn't feel any of the whoops and the landing was pillow soft. My theory is, with that much oil in the shocks and large dia. valving to adjust with, you can more precisely control the movement of the vehicle in relation to the springs, which is what the shocks are supposed to do.

It depends on how heavy your car is, how many passengers you have. My car is 2500 lbs empty, probably around 3300 lb with 4 average people in it. There were a couple of times when the rear shocks got almost too hot to touch in Glamis, but that was going faster than normal. My front shocks before adding bypasses, got pretty warm, but after adding bypasses never got warm. I'm not really worried about shock fade.

The biggest reason I went with bypasses was for easy external adjustability. The car already had rear bypasses, so adding front bypasses looked normal, it was also cheaper. It cost me $510 ea. for 2 2" Fox bypasses. Another $400 for fab work on the front end, so $1,420 total.

Internal bypasses are $850 ea plus tax, so $1844.50 for the pair. But you have to switch over to larger springs at what? $100 ea? More like $150 ea. 4 springs will cost you $600, $651 with tax. So the total cost for parts will be $2495.50  for IBP shocks, assuming they just bolt right on. That's still $1,075.50 more than I spent adding bypasses. I've got 3 bypass tubes and they're external, I can adjust them at any time with an allen wrench. 

Over $1,000 higher cost, only 2 bypass ports, need to disassemble it to adjust valving or bypass ports. Nope, I don't see any advantage to these at all. Especially if you have to watch out for G outs, drive mellower or creep around the whoops all over Glamis, even in the big bowls. That is definitely not the solution for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, socaldmax said:

Yes, you noticed that. I never said anything about fade resistance. I don't know what Rockwood was reading, but it wasn't anything I wrote.

Contrary to popular belief, you are not at the center of the world. Which is why I didn’t quote you: it wasn’t a response to you, just by $0.02 on it. Hell, I didn’t even see your response when I typed mine. 

Edited by Rockwood

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thingy on the cost side to factor is that doing it single shock gives the possibility of recovering a few dollars for the 2.0 coil overs on the car now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Rockwood said:

Contrary to popular belief, you are not at the center of the world. Which is why I didn’t quote you: it wasn’t a response to you, just by $0.02 on it. Hell, I didn’t even see your response when I typed mine. 

No, but after thousands of threads where you follow me around and try to argue with every single thing I post, it's turned into a normal reaction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Richard H said:

One thingy on the cost side to factor is that doing it single shock gives the possibility of recovering a few dollars for the 2.0 coil overs on the car now.

I don't think you're going to get anywhere near $1,000 for a pair of used shocks.

The ability to easily adjust bypasses to suit different terrain, driving speeds and different number of passengers was my main goal and it was well worth it IMHO.

Good luck on whatever you choose! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, socaldmax said:

No, but after thousands of threads where you follow me around and try to argue with every single thing I post, it's turned into a normal reaction.

EE13FCF4-FAB9-4D67-A344-CF30AC4702C4.jpeg.4a7e80533780c59cfecd39686aa81696.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Richard H said:

One thingy on the cost side to factor is that doing it single shock gives the possibility of recovering a few dollars for the 2.0 coil overs on the car now.

What size...? :bigrin 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rockwood said:

What size...? :bigrin 

The current shock is a 2.0x14 coil over piggy back King. I will be the test pilot for these it would appear. Couple of things brought up, one the car is a 2 seat and if possible (and it is) I do not carry a passenger or ever pound whoops. I do think they would work well for how I use the car, strictly a dune car. I would end up with 2.5 as I have not found 2.0 and don't mind the up size. Thanks for all input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Following , was thinking the same for my set up.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I have Fox 2.5 internal bypasses on my car on all 4 corners.  They work great for a car that has single shock set up. I would much rather have the triple bypasses  on my car but that would be a lot of fab work to make it happen.  The down fall is it took awhile to get the compression and rebound set up as it is all done from the inside.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Richard H said:

The current shock is a 2.0x14 coil over piggy back King. I will be the test pilot for these it would appear. Couple of things brought up, one the car is a 2 seat and if possible (and it is) I do not carry a passenger or ever pound whoops. I do think they would work well for how I use the car, strictly a dune car. I would end up with 2.5 as I have not found 2.0 and don't mind the up size. Thanks for all input.

I looked into the he same thing. You want to measure a few things first.  Because the extended and collapsed length for a 2.5 internal bypass compared to a 2.0 is a few inches. Make sure your car can cycle with the new lengths Bc you could lose some travel. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IBP = King... Fox has a different way of doing internal bypass

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, jtmoney714 said:

I looked into the he same thing. You want to measure a few things first.  Because the extended and collapsed length for a 2.5 internal bypass compared to a 2.0 is a few inches. Make sure your car can cycle with the new lengths Bc you could lose some travel. 

Yep. IBP Fox shocks are 3” longer in 14” size. 

Edited by Rockwood

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Yep. IBP Fox shocks are 3” longer in 14” size. 

I found that the 12" fox IBP would fit almost identical to my current setup as I'm not using my 14" King shocks to the maximum. My limit straps are keeping about 2" of unused shock. 

King 14" are 35.85 x 21.85 and Fox 12"IBP are 33.43 x 21.43 I couldn't ask for a better match with the 2" now not being used in my King setup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

More Links

©2001 GlamisDunes.com.
All rights reserved.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.