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JKR951

S4 to S5 Conversion

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Posted (edited)

My off-season upgrades, first on the list, upgrade my S4 to a  S5.

Happy with my gearing but want a little more speed for open areas, going to Duners Diner turning 3,000 @ 50 mph sucks, afraid to change my gearing, it’s a real commitment and I might hate it!

Torn between buying a new S5 or mod my S4. (I understand the cost difference) Buying a new S5 would get me the latest upgrades but not sure if it’s really worth it.

I understand the gears are narrower on the S5

My set-up: 2 Seat Mid eng. 466 rwhp with STU 33’s #2

Has anyone done this conversion?

Anyone have bad luck with the S5 on a similar set-up?

Input appreciated !

Edited by JKR951
Corrected HP

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Posted (edited)

I did it in my car last off season and could not be happier. I rebuilt and sold the old s4, and built a brand new s5.  It is almost impossible to gear a s4 with duning gears and also have enough top end. I only have 444rwhp (mid-built ls3), but geared it very high (130mph) and the car still dunes great. In the sand my top speed is 119 and I am not sure what it is in the dirt.  I expected to add horsepower in the future so I didn't want to run out of top end. I run to duners diner at +80mph the whole way and love having the top end. 

R&P. 4.63

1. 3.09

2. 2.14

3. 1.67

4. 1.32

5. 1.04

Edited by Reece

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Don't get too hung up on the fact that S5 gears are narrower than S4, they will easily handle upwards of 800 HP in a sandcar, and that's probably a conservative number. 

They are almost the same width as the gears in the Albins sequential trans. The reason they can't handle as much as an Albins is other factors to the original gear design and the way they fit onto the shafts.

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Curious to see what you decide to do and how it turns out.  I need another gear... 

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50 minutes ago, Reece said:

I did it in my car last off season and could not be happier. I rebuilt and sold the old s4, and built a brand new s5.  It is almost impossible to gear a s4 with duning gears and also have enough top end. I only have 444rwhp (mid-built ls3), but geared it very high (130mph) and the car still dunes great. In the sand my top speed is 119 and I am not sure what it is in the dirt.  I expected to add horsepower in the future so I didn't want to run out of top end. I run to duners diner at +80mph the whole way and love having the top end. 

R&P. 4.63

1. 3.09

2. 2.14

3. 1.67

4. 1.32

5. 1.04

Great to know, Thank You

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46 minutes ago, SEAN@WEDDLE said:

Don't get too hung up on the fact that S5 gears are narrower than S4, they will easily handle upwards of 800 HP in a sandcar, and that's probably a conservative number. 

They are almost the same width as the gears in the Albins sequential trans. The reason they can't handle as much as an Albins is other factors to the original gear design and the way they fit onto the shafts.

Okay, I got it, thanks Sean.

I'll  be calling next week. What's the lead time on a S5 ?

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Posted (edited)

Do you do a lot of desert rides or street legal?

Edited by SANDPSYCHO

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1 hour ago, JKR951 said:

Okay, I got it, thanks Sean.

I'll  be calling next week. What's the lead time on a S5 ?

All parts in stock and ready to go.

Only problem we will have right now is no input shafts for the chevy bell housing.

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2 hours ago, SANDPSYCHO said:

Do you do a lot of desert rides or street legal?

Sand only !

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17 minutes ago, JKR951 said:

Sand only !

I have a PBS S4 and can easily hit a buck on a DD run. I guess you'll be infront of me in line at the bar. :lol:

 

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LOL ........ good times!

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what motor is it,

allot of time adding HP make more sense, the 5 speed listed is about the same I have in a 4 speed but with a LSX 454 it hits 121mph as fast as I can shift it,  somtime more HP is more fun than more gear and can be the same cost,

but if it is not a LS gearing might be the only option

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, J Alper said:

what motor is it,

allot of time adding HP make more sense, the 5 speed listed is about the same I have in a 4 speed but with a LSX 454 it hits 121mph as fast as I can shift it,  somtime more HP is more fun than more gear and can be the same cost,

but if it is not a LS gearing might be the only option

It’s a LS1 with small blower, 466 RWHP rail weighs 2000 lbs

Edited by JKR951
Corrected HP #s

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20 hours ago, Reece said:

I did it in my car last off season and could not be happier. I rebuilt and sold the old s4, and built a brand new s5.  It is almost impossible to gear a s4 with duning gears and also have enough top end. I only have 444rwhp (mid-built ls3), but geared it very high (130mph) and the car still dunes great. In the sand my top speed is 119 and I am not sure what it is in the dirt.  I expected to add horsepower in the future so I didn't want to run out of top end. I run to duners diner at +80mph the whole way and love having the top end. 

R&P. 4.63

1. 3.09

2. 2.14

3. 1.67

4. 1.32

5. 1.04

My gearing and Dyno sheet.

R&P 4.57  1st  2.91  2nd 2.08  3rd 1.67  4th 1.35

 

IMG_20190601_110912.jpg

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holly crap that is a low 4th gear, with a supercharger I would just put in a taller 3rd 4th, 

383 would double the torque feeling, gears wear out quicker than motors, my 4 speed does 114 easy and 121 from time to time,

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20 hours ago, J Alper said:

holly crap that is a low 4th gear, with a supercharger I would just put in a taller 3rd 4th, 

383 would double the torque feeling, gears wear out quicker than motors, my 4 speed does 114 easy and 121 from time to time,

Your right on all accounts! What are your gear ratios?

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2 hours ago, JKR951 said:

Your right on all accounts! What are your gear ratios?

what tire size do you have

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12 hours ago, J Alper said:

what tire size do you have

33"#2 cut

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Posted (edited)

4.57  RP

3.09 1st

1.93 2nd

1.44 3rd

1.09 4th

 

with 33 blaster

Edited by J Alper
add tire

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Did the S4 S5 swap thing back a few years..I think it's best to sell the S4 and build a new S5 or S5D...With the swap you end up with a bunch of left over parts that you get pennies on the dollar for..Fortunately I got McDowell to give me a refund for the extra parts that were left over but it was no where near what they would cost new..

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20 minutes ago, Super Hunky said:

Did the S4 S5 swap thing back a few years..I think it's best to sell the S4 and build a new S5 or S5D...With the swap you end up with a bunch of left over parts that you get pennies on the dollar for..Fortunately I got McDowell to give me a refund for the extra parts that were left over but it was no where near what they would cost new..

I agree easier to get a new trans, still think the stroked motor to a 383 will give him the bigger smile and new 3rd 4th,   think about the drag cars they do close to 300mph with a 2 speed, it just take torque and a 4'' crank will also add more value to the car than a 5 speed in my opinion 

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8 minutes ago, J Alper said:

I agree easier to get a new trans, still think the stroked motor to a 383 will give him the bigger smile and new 3rd 4th,   think about the drag cars they do close to 300mph with a 2 speed, it just take torque and a 4'' crank will also add more value to the car than a 5 speed in my opinion 

Agreed..In my case I do a lot of desert running out at Parker. A lot of time is spent just running down relatively smooth roads so the 5th gear is good to keep the revs down and still move along at a reasonable speed..No reason to run at steady high Rpm if you can avoid it..

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I have 2 things to say about this topic:

1. I would tell you that it would be better to put your money towards the 5 speed conversion. The shorter 1st-4th gear splits will stay the same as you have them now, which you stated that you liked, and the 5th gear will drop your RPM's on longer runs. If you are happy the amount of power you have, it would be better for the trans to not throw more power at it. 

2. I will also tell you that I have no problem with you putting your money towards a bigger motor with Alper or your preferred engine builder. More power through your trans will certainly make you a returning customer to us as you stress out ring and pinions. Then at some point you will require a "D" trans to handle the extra power once you get tired of spending money on replacing R&P sets. 

I see it as a win/win.

Simply giving all of the information to let the customer make an informed decision.

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18 hours ago, SEAN@WEDDLE said:

I have 2 things to say about this topic:

1. I would tell you that it would be better to put your money towards the 5 speed conversion. The shorter 1st-4th gear splits will stay the same as you have them now, which you stated that you liked, and the 5th gear will drop your RPM's on longer runs. If you are happy the amount of power you have, it would be better for the trans to not throw more power at it. 

2. I will also tell you that I have no problem with you putting your money towards a bigger motor with Alper or your preferred engine builder. More power through your trans will certainly make you a returning customer to us as you stress out ring and pinions. Then at some point you will require a "D" trans to handle the extra power once you get tired of spending money on replacing R&P sets. 

I see it as a win/win.

Simply giving all of the information to let the customer make an informed decision.

I would like a 5 speed later,

I will say the S4 and the S4D have been a Great Tranny, the 5 speed is nice also, I hate when I race a 5 speed and have them by a half a car length and hear the 5th gear shift, I think Jetjock had me by a full car length, he hit 134 mph,  and I was stuck aroung 114 mph,  Damn 5 speeds,

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On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 3:54 PM, SEAN@WEDDLE said:

I have 2 things to say about this topic:

1. I would tell you that it would be better to put your money towards the 5 speed conversion. The shorter 1st-4th gear splits will stay the same as you have them now, which you stated that you liked, and the 5th gear will drop your RPM's on longer runs. If you are happy the amount of power you have, it would be better for the trans to not throw more power at it. 

2. I will also tell you that I have no problem with you putting your money towards a bigger motor with Alper or your preferred engine builder. More power through your trans will certainly make you a returning customer to us as you stress out ring and pinions. Then at some point you will require a "D" trans to handle the extra power once you get tired of spending money on replacing R&P sets. 

I see it as a win/win.

Simply giving all of the information to let the customer make an informed decision.

email sent

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