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cwarkenton

Single Turbo LS1

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 The fab work looks really clean!  I'm curious to see how much horsepower it will make on 91.

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8 hours ago, DezertRatRail said:

 The fab work looks really clean!  I'm curious to see how much horsepower it will make on 91.

Buck at Goodrich Fab never disappoints! I'll post up some numbers after dyno and tune for sure! 🤘 

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looks like a small IC.  bigger the better on a IC.  

 

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15 hours ago, onanysunday said:

Here would be a good question for a dyno guy. Do a setup at 6-7 psi boost and run one setup on pump 91 and another on AZ flex 50-54% or Cali E85. (Depending where you are) How much more power do you make? Of course intercooled with a good quality intercooler.

I can tell you on my CTSV that back to back dyno runs on E85.   75 MORE HP at the wheels just switching fuels.  Of course it is tuned and has the flex fuel sensor in there.  as soon as my blower is ported and cam in stalled I should be looking at way more HP.  I will post up in another thread.  Oh yea.  running 15 psi of boost. 

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Will the IC have a big scoop that sits up above the seat tops? 

 

-TJ

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6 hours ago, tjZ06 said:

Will the IC have a big scoop that sits up above the seat tops? 

 

-TJ

If not I’d slap a fan on it. 

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On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 9:17 PM, DezertRatRail said:

 The fab work looks really clean!  I'm curious to see how much horsepower it will make on 91.

with 91 what boost are you running, and what compression ratio,

stock on the cars is around 10.5  and the trucks 9.6 to 1 

with aftermarket pistons NA we see around 10.8,  so for anyone doing this they might want to consider some head work to change the compression ratio and thicker head gasket,

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On 8/29/2019 at 5:42 PM, tjZ06 said:

Will the IC have a big scoop that sits up above the seat tops? 

 

-TJ

I'm adding a scoop from the roof because I am running a windshield. 

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24 minutes ago, J Alper said:

with 91 what boost are you running, and what compression ratio,

stock on the cars is around 10.5  and the trucks 9.6 to 1 

with aftermarket pistons NA we see around 10.8,  so for anyone doing this they might want to consider some head work to change the compression ratio and thicker head gasket,

Going to go for 8 lbs of boost. I don't know compression. If I had to guess probably close to stock. The motor is built with some head work but it wasn't built originally with a turbo in mind. 

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10 hours ago, cwarkenton said:

Going to go for 8 lbs of boost. I don't know compression. If I had to guess probably close to stock. The motor is built with some head work but it wasn't built originally with a turbo in mind. 

At 8lbs and with 10.5 compression that might be hard on 91, lance loader dunehoon knows single turbos in stock motors. Might have to dial down the boost or move the octane up to the 110 mark,  we had a motor with forged JE pistons and got bad detonation and broke a piston within a hour. 

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8 hours ago, J Alper said:

At 8lbs and with 10.5 compression that might be hard on 91, lance loader dunehoon knows single turbos in stock motors. Might have to dial down the boost or move the octane up to the 110 mark,  we had a motor with forged JE pistons and got bad detonation and broke a piston within a hour. 

Made that suggestion on the first page. Tried to find a video we had of the turbo set up running against our buddy with similar motor non turbo. They used to be very close but after the turbo, there was no comparison.

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Let’s see if this works

 

0244C497-950F-4CCE-A214-6D305B5A2B19.png

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The tatum is next door to us and we do all the maintenance on it, E85 is not 91, it is closer to Hi Octane, second is

Every year we need to drain the fuel, we have had times where the aeromtive pump looks like a Jello Shot inside, also

you have to be carful where you start it until the exhaust gets over 200 degrees this shoots allot of moisture out of the tail pipe so it make a mess of our shop, so now we have some poles welded up and hang a towel on it,

you can not see it in the picture but the turbo is about the size of a 7.3 turbo,   the have had almost no issue but it is tight ,

it took us 3 hours to change the pulley seal, the turbo system had to be removed to change the balancer seal,

 

like I said before 8lbs ot 10.5 on 91 is not going to last a long time, but will be fun to watch, one or twice,  

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1 hour ago, J Alper said:

The tatum is next door to us and we do all the maintenance on it, E85 is not 91, it is closer to Hi Octane, second is

Every year we need to drain the fuel, we have had times where the aeromtive pump looks like a Jello Shot inside, also

you have to be carful where you start it until the exhaust gets over 200 degrees this shoots allot of moisture out of the tail pipe so it make a mess of our shop, so now we have some poles welded up and hang a towel on it,

you can not see it in the picture but the turbo is about the size of a 7.3 turbo,   the have had almost no issue but it is tight ,

it took us 3 hours to change the pulley seal, the turbo system had to be removed to change the balancer seal,

 

like I said before 8lbs ot 10.5 on 91 is not going to last a long time, but will be fun to watch, one or twice,  

I do understand the difference between 91 and e85. That’s why I told him to run e85 instead of 91. The reason I showed the videos was to show what can be done, that it’s not impossible, and it can kick ass. Good luck running this kind of system on 91. 

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Also, the reason for such a big turbo is because the motor already made good hp and torque so it didn’t need the turbo to hit off the bottom. So basically the turbo built power mid range to top end with the feeling of no turbo lag. The set up worked damn good for something people say couldn’t be done!

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39 minutes ago, big_daddy_jp said:

Also, the reason for such a big turbo is because the motor already made good hp and torque so it didn’t need the turbo to hit off the bottom. So basically the turbo built power mid range to top end with the feeling of no turbo lag. The set up worked damn good for something people say couldn’t be done!

That big turbo helps a ton for keeping detonation in check (as well as the E85). GT series will run very cool and efficient at those power levels (assume 600-ish at the wheels?). 

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1 hour ago, big_daddy_jp said:

I do understand the difference between 91 and e85. That’s why I told him to run e85 instead of 91. The reason I showed the videos was to show what can be done, that it’s not impossible, and it can kick ass. Good luck running this kind of system on 91. 

I full agree with you,

 

1 hour ago, big_daddy_jp said:

Also, the reason for such a big turbo is because the motor already made good hp and torque so it didn’t need the turbo to hit off the bottom. So basically the turbo built power mid range to top end with the feeling of no turbo lag. The set up worked damn good for something people say couldn’t be done!

Lance tunes allot of our motors and I feel he is very good with turbos, 

I feel you are right on the money,  think a single turbo on a stroked motor would make a great car to drive in the sand,  

all and all and cheaper in the end, my car feels more punchy being a 454Ci compared to a 402 with a turbo, and is a cheaper build, he has talks of pulling the turbo and going to the big Cube,

at the end of the day to go from a 402 to a 454 is  about $1800 more to have Darton Sleeve the block,  all other cost are the same, the crank is $85 more for the 4.100 over a 4.00 crank

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32 minutes ago, J Alper said:

I full agree with you,

 

Lance tunes allot of our motors and I feel he is very good with turbos, 

I feel you are right on the money,  think a single turbo on a stroked motor would make a great car to drive in the sand,  

all and all and cheaper in the end, my car feels more punchy being a 454Ci compared to a 402 with a turbo, and is a cheaper build, he has talks of pulling the turbo and going to the big Cube,

at the end of the day to go from a 402 to a 454 is  about $1800 more to have Darton Sleeve the block,  all other cost are the same, the crank is $85 more for the 4.100 over a 4.00 crank

You would definitely know more than me when it comes to this! I would say your probably dead on with the motor comparisons. My question to you would be if you already had the 402, is it cheaper to add the turbo set up or is it cheaper to build it into a 454? I think those numbers may really help others down the road.

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I hate to say it, but I just don't know enough about motors to make my own judgment. I do have the guy that designed the setup and Redline saying 91 will be no problem at low boost (need to confirm 8lbs with redline. Previously we were thinking 6lbs). I do know that I never want to run e85 again. I keep everything at the dunes and it's just not doable for me from my previous experience. 

I'll post some videos and keep this thread updated. If it doesn't blow it was by far the cheapest hp gain I found dollar for dollar. If it does blow... Well we'll have some carnage pics hahah

Edited by cwarkenton

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1 hour ago, big_daddy_jp said:

You would definitely know more than me when it comes to this! I would say your probably dead on with the motor comparisons. My question to you would be if you already had the 402, is it cheaper to add the turbo set up or is it cheaper to build it into a 454? I think those numbers may really help others down the road.

We only do Sandcar motors, and maybe over built for some but if I already had the 402 and putting boost in it, I would build it for boost, but some would not and put on a turbo system, so for me, I would change  the valve to a inconell exhaust, solid stainless intake,  2016 silicone pistons and would go from a .004 piston wall to a .006 piston wall clearance, I would also use a stainless piston ring and add more expansion clearance on the rings,  we also add .002 more bearings clearance and go with our custom pump by mellings

1 hour ago, big_daddy_jp said:

You would definitely know more than me when it comes to this! I would say your probably dead on with the motor comparisons. My question to you would be if you already had the 402, is it cheaper to add the turbo set up or is it cheaper to build it into a 454? I think those numbers may really help others down the road.

 

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7 minutes ago, J Alper said:

We only do Sandcar motors, and maybe over built for some but if I already had the 402 and putting boost in it, I would build it for boost, but some would not and put on a turbo system, so for me, I would change  the valve to a inconell exhaust, solid stainless intake,  2016 silicone pistons and would go from a .004 piston wall to a .006 piston wall clearance, I would also use a stainless piston ring and add more expansion clearance on the rings,  we also add .002 more bearings clearance and go with our custom pump by mellings

 

I think you may have misunderstood the question. I realize tearing it down and building the motor for boost is what’s best for a boosted application. You said you have a 454ci motor that runs just like the fore mentioned 402 with a turbo. People are looking to build reliable hp as cheaply as possible these days. Everyone asks how much boost can my stock Honda, Subaru, and now LS hold. This is because they don’t want to tear a perfectly good running motor down if they don’t have to. So is adding a turbo set up to an already running 402 cheaper than tearing the motor down and having it built into a 454ci like yours? 

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Back from ceramic coating. 

Appointment set up with Redline for 10/3. I guess they can't tune my existing Mefi 4a so need to upgrade to 4b. Anyway I'll post some dyno numbers. Super interested to see what we get! 🤘🤘🤘

imagejpeg_1(2).jpg

imagejpeg_0(5).jpg

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Seems weird that they can’t tune a mefi 4a, I have talked to a few tuners here in AZ that haven’t said anything about not being able to tune my mefi 4a. Maybe it can’t read boost or something? 

I really like this turbo setup, nice and simple, can’t wait to see how it works out for you! With someone like redline tuning it I doubt you’ll have any issues! 

Edited by SandCo AZ

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38 minutes ago, SandCo AZ said:

Seems weird that they can’t tune a mefi 4a, I have talked to a few tuners here in AZ that haven’t said anything about not being able to tune my mefi 4a. Maybe it can’t read boost or something? 

I really like this turbo setup, nice and simple, can’t wait to see how it works out for you! With someone like redline tuning it I doubt you’ll have any issues! 

They did the original tune on the motor when it was built withe 4a no prob. So yes it is only with the addition of the turbo that makes it untunable. Jennifer said the 4a doesn't have enough parameters to tweak with the added turbo. My fab guy was puzzled too and thought they should be able to do it but I don't want anyone else to tune it and I didn't want to force the issue with them. I want the tuner fully confident with the right hardware for sure hahaha

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20 minutes ago, cwarkenton said:

They did the original tune on the motor when it was built withe 4a no prob. So yes it is only with the addition of the turbo that makes it untunable. Jennifer said the 4a doesn't have enough parameters to tweak with the added turbo. My fab guy was puzzled too and thought they should be able to do it but I don't want anyone else to tune it and I didn't want to force the issue with them. I want the tuner fully confident with the right hardware for sure hahaha

Okay that makes sense then! I’ll have to keep that in mind if I ever turbo mine, need an s4 first though! Haha 

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