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socaldmax

Would you ever fly on a Boeing 737 Max?

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After seeing some 60 Minutes investigations into the 737 Max crashes due to the MCAS system, I don't think I'll ever get on one, even if Boeing claims they've fixed it. They don't get to make a mistake like that and ask me to trust them ever again on that aircraft.

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Hell no, also lost any respect for the FAA

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what if they get it corrected, it flies for 2-3 years with no accidents, still wouldn't get on one?

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I was on 2 just last week not sure if it was a max but one was pretty new. The Airbus I was on was old and it showed. 

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Still safer than driving, blah blah blah.

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52 minutes ago, 1newbie said:

what if they get it corrected, it flies for 2-3 years with no accidents, still wouldn't get on one?

Maybe. If there wasn't a single hiccup or failure during that entire time.

There's another investigation into QC failures of the 787 Dreamliner, the one with the burning batteries. Instead of finding the cause of the battery combustion, they just put them in a "fireproof" box. The QC issues relate to flaws in the construction of the plane itself and the employees at the NC plant said they wouldn't fly on one, they know what's wrong with the plane.

This all points to a systemic problem with Boeing's corporate culture, which changed after they merged with McDonnell Douglas. They now answer to shareholders and no longer care about safety or QC. What an incredibly shortsighted strategy!

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45 minutes ago, SANDPSYCHO said:

I was on 2 just last week not sure if it was a max but one was pretty new. The Airbus I was on was old and it showed. 

Have you noticed that when you hit turbulence on a Boeing, the fuselage bounces up and down. The 2 times I've been on an A320, when we hit turbulence, the fuselage twisted horizontally, not vertically. I mentioned that to an aerospace engr friend of mine and he said he noticed it as well. Just as I suspected, it's a transference of energy from vertical to horizontal and it's caused by the design of the plane, somehow. He felt that this type of stress on the fuselage can't be good for plane longevity.

All of the plane mfrs are trying to shave weight and increase fuel economy and that can't be good for reliability and durability. There's only so much material you can shave off before you might as well call it the Polaris of the sky!

:lol:

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39 minutes ago, Kat-A-Tonic said:

Still safer than driving, blah blah blah.

Not according to the lazy asses at the FAA, who finally grounded the things. Even the pilots are refusing to fly them until they're proven to be safe. 

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13 minutes ago, socaldmax said:

Have you noticed that when you hit turbulence on a Boeing, the fuselage bounces up and down. The 2 times I've been on an A320, when we hit turbulence, the fuselage twisted horizontally, not vertically. I mentioned that to an aerospace engr friend of mine and he said he noticed it as well. Just as I suspected, it's a transference of energy from vertical to horizontal and it's caused by the design of the plane, somehow. He felt that this type of stress on the fuselage can't be good for plane longevity.

All of the plane mfrs are trying to shave weight and increase fuel economy and that can't be good for reliability and durability. There's only so much material you can shave off before you might as well call it the Polaris of the sky!

:lol:

We had pretty smooth flights but the 2 Air Buses both fishtail like a dog wagging thier tail on take off and landing. It was not a reassuring feeling. 

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24 minutes ago, socaldmax said:

All of the plane mfrs are trying to shave weight and increase fuel economy and that can't be good for reliability and durability. There's only so much material you can shave off before you might as well call it the Polaris of the sky!

Wait, so are you saying if they put stronger wings on it, they are just transferring the stress somewhere else?????????????

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1 minute ago, realbadlarry said:

Wait, so are you saying if they put stronger wings on it, they are just transferring the stress somewhere else?????????????

Nope.

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37 minutes ago, socaldmax said:

Not according to the lazy asses at the FAA, who finally grounded the things. Even the pilots are refusing to fly them until they're proven to be safe. 

I guess my sarcasm did not come through.  Flying may be safer than driving with the average idiot driver but I like to think I am an above average idiot...

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Oh, and I have not flown in over 15 years, that is how much I think of the entire industry.

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I will NEVER get on one of those, even if it's a business trip and my company arranged the flight.

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I will NEVER get on one of those, even if it's a business trip and my company arranged the flight.

just be careful...my wife does my scheduling and EVERY flight is scheduled on one of those...

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Of course I would (sighhhhh).     

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4 hours ago, Kat-A-Tonic said:

I guess my sarcasm did not come through.  Flying may be safer than driving with the average idiot driver but I like to think I am an above average idiot...

Gotcha!

Yup, I missed the sarcasm.

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There's a tradition at General Dynamics, Electric Boat division. Every time they build a new sub, most of the shipyard workers, especially the welders, have to ride in it on the first sea trials. They know this from the minute they first start building it, so the theory is they'll be extra careful to do a good job because their own lives depend on it.

I think the FAA should make all of the executives cutting corners at Boeing fill up all of the seats on the first test flights. If anything goes wrong, they'll be the first to know!

:rtd:

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My brother was flying the max 8 for american until it was grounded. He says its fine.  The system can be over ridden. The system itself is an attempt to fix something that isnt broken. The major problem is the pilots comming up have no idea how to hand fly an airplane

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1 hour ago, socaldmax said:

There's a tradition at General Dynamics, Electric Boat division. Every time they build a new sub, most of the shipyard workers, especially the welders, have to ride in it on the first sea trials. They know this from the minute they first start building it, so the theory is they'll be extra careful to do a good job because their own lives depend on it.

I think the FAA should make all of the executives cutting corners at Boeing fill up all of the seats on the first test flights. If anything goes wrong, they'll be the first to know!

:rtd:

I know that feeling.  I designed an underwater gate for the dry dock at 32nd St Naval Station, and was in the tunnel the first time it was used.  Had it failed I would have been shoved through a grated 12" hole by 30 odd feet of water pressure.  Another time I had to do testing on a bridge I designed for the Abrams tank to get from the quay to a LST.  Stood on and under that sucker doing deflection measurements while 105 tons of weights were stacked on it.  It was ok, I was wearing a hardhat, LOL.

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2 hours ago, sausage450r said:

My brother was flying the max 8 for american until it was grounded. He says its fine.  The system can be over ridden. The system itself is an attempt to fix something that isnt broken. The major problem is the pilots comming up have no idea how to hand fly an airplane

According to the 60 Minutes BBC story, the system forces the nose down for 10 seconds and releases control for 5 seconds, then forces it down for 10 seconds, then releases for 5, repeat until the plane crashes. They also claimed that none of the pilots were told how to control it or even if there was a way to shut it off.

What I still don't understand is why MCAS would think it was in a stall under normal flight conditions and how did this effed up software program pass all of the flight testing and end up in the fleets of all of these airlines whose pilots claim they never got trained in how to deal with it. They said it was implemented to solve an engine change that had a tendency to put the plane in a nose up position when it should have been a level attitude. They should have moved the engine or tilted it to prevent any of this sort of stupid programming crap from ever being installed.

 

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55 minutes ago, socaldmax said:

According to the 60 Minutes BBC story, the system forces the nose down for 10 seconds and releases control for 5 seconds, then forces it down for 10 seconds, then releases for 5, repeat until the plane crashes. They also claimed that none of the pilots were told how to control it or even if there was a way to shut it off.

What I still don't understand is why MCAS would think it was in a stall under normal flight conditions and how did this effed up software program pass all of the flight testing and end up in the fleets of all of these airlines whose pilots claim they never got trained in how to deal with it. They said it was implemented to solve an engine change that had a tendency to put the plane in a nose up position when it should have been a level attitude. They should have moved the engine or tilted it to prevent any of this sort of stupid programming crap from ever being installed.

 

The system can be over ridden by controls on the side if the yolk. And yes the system is a stupid attempt at making an idiot over ride system. My brother was trained in how to over ride the system :dunno: 

 

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Thanks for posting the Youtube vid Sausage450r  I hope other issues don’t surface from hanging a bigger engine on the wing. They will  need to have a stellar flight record for several years before I fly on the 737max.

My business deals with Lockheed Martin, Bombardier and Boeing ......... I’m always concerned when I hear a plane goes down.

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They've been grounded in the US since just after the accident. Southwest's entire fleet has been sitting at an air field in the high desert for a few months now with no "return to service" date in sight. There were more issues with the crash than came to light, The "fail safe" kicked in twice on the SW fleet and the pilots(both combat vets) were able to correct and fly the planes, with the crashes there was pilot error involved also. Inexperience in the cockpit is not your friend... 
:dunno:

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Sounds like a greedy executive team came up with an idea to make more money and nobody had the spine to point out that it was a bad idea. Now that they are committed ($$$), they are unwilling to admit the mistake. Making said executives use only these planes for travel would certainly motivate them to fix the problem, or revive the popularity of travel by train...

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