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Why doesn’t anyone use a Porsche 911 (or any Porsche) engine?

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Seems the weight is similar to Big Block and LS series, and RPMs similar to Honda/Subaru; cost is about the same as a nice LS built motor.  Curious

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I'm no expert, but cost has to be one factor. If you want the benefits of a flat six, the subaru 3.3 with a turbo will make a ton of power. It's not cheap, but iirc it was designed in conjunction with porsche. John at out front will probably chime in as he in one of the experts on that motor In a sandcar....

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What's the point? LS engines are tried and true and you can buy performance parts for them anywhere. 

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2 hours ago, Desertdogs said:

Seems the weight is similar to Big Block and LS series, and RPMs similar to Honda/Subaru; cost is about the same as a nice LS built motor.  Curious

 

they are just a junk motor, with bearing issues,  and need to turbo them to make any HP, 

we have pulled the 1990 - 2010 motors and have put in a LS

the LS 6.0 stock walks away from the Porsche engine,  the 416 with a mid cam, eats the Twin Turbo motor,

only issue with doing the Conversion is that the Porsche motor has a higher RPM so in a street car the transaxle needs to be regarded,  to go though the transaxle we spent about 10K to make it work correctly with the LS,

as putting a Porsche in a Sandcar would be the Fastest way to destroy the value of the car, that would be the only fast part,  was popular in the early 90's and the Cadi motor made the Flat 6 disappear, to much to go wrong with the old dual twin plug distributors, and the new ones burn oil and need proper car for little HP, 

if you wanted a super Hi RPM motor I would think the Busa would be better than the Porsche, I know about 3 of the Dual Cam Dual plug motors is you need one,

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8 hours ago, Desertdogs said:

Seems the weight is similar to Big Block and LS series, and RPMs similar to Honda/Subaru; cost is about the same as a nice LS built motor.  Curious

Don't know where you got the cost as to being same as a nice LS, but last I checked a 911 Porsche was three times the cost.  Just the fact that it has P.O.R.S.C.H.E. stamped on it.   They need turbo's , and there are few after market parts for them.  Save your money and go 3.0 or 3.2 Subaru.    

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10 hours ago, fortyfour said:

What's the point? LS engines are tried and true and you can buy performance parts for them anywhere. 

Point is that some people understand the advantages of a low center of gravity.....  

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For the hell of it I looked up the cost of a GT3 motor. There's one on Ebay 2017 4.0 for $35,000.  Thats 500hp normally aspirated, 9000 rpm. That's a bulletproof motor that would sound insane in a rail, and handle a lot better than a LS motor, but it ain't cheap.

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8 hours ago, J Alper said:

 

they are just a junk motor, with bearing issues,  and need to turbo them to make any HP, 

we have pulled the 1990 - 2010 motors and have put in a LS

the LS 6.0 stock walks away from the Porsche engine,  the 416 with a mid cam, eats the Twin Turbo motor,

only issue with doing the Conversion is that the Porsche motor has a higher RPM so in a street car the transaxle needs to be regarded,  to go though the transaxle we spent about 10K to make it work correctly with the LS,

as putting a Porsche in a Sandcar would be the Fastest way to destroy the value of the car, that would be the only fast part,  was popular in the early 90's and the Cadi motor made the Flat 6 disappear, to much to go wrong with the old dual twin plug distributors, and the new ones burn oil and need proper car for little HP, 

if you wanted a super Hi RPM motor I would think the Busa would be better than the Porsche, I know about 3 of the Dual Cam Dual plug motors is you need one,

no V8, na, turbo, blown or otherwise  could stand a chance against my flat 6 cylinder in the dunes, .......just say'n    

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My dad had a Porsche motor in his Manx when I was a kid. I know he loved that motor. 30 years later he will still boast about that motor. But again, that was 30 years ago. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, surf and dune said:

Point is that some people understand the advantages of a low center of gravity.....  

;)^^^^^^This

 

To answer the OP,  The flat six IMHO is the best handling/most powerful engine in the dunes, its not cheap but to compare a v8 to it isn't fair for either platform. Tried and true doesn't mean its the best (it might be best bang for the buck) but when the goal is PURE PERFORMANCE, budget doesn't seem to be a priority.  If I was a Porsche mechanic then I would probably have one in my car today.  However I think they are overly built for the application.  the dry sump oiling and so forth can become "more than needed"  If I could build the same mouse trap that Porsche did that is lighter I would....and I did.

Edited by John@Outfront Mtrsprts

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The low COG and sound of the flat6 motors are tough to beat but its easy to throw an LS with a moderate build for the price. I think if price was not the issue the 6cyl built motors would be more common. Years ago I had a Porsche motor in a car and it was fun. I also have had several 4 and 6cyl Subaru set ups and those seemed better in my opinion. Maybe lighter? Not sure but more fun. Then I went to LS motors and although the instant throttle is fun the speed in the dunes is still better with the low cog set up in my opinion.  My opinion is based of duning though, not drag racing. 

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Just now, Brandon Long said:

The low COG and sound of the flat6 motors are tough to beat but its easy to throw an LS with a moderate build for the price. I think if price was not the issue the 6cyl built motors would be more common. Years ago I had a Porsche motor in a car and it was fun. I also have had several 4 and 6cyl Subaru set ups and those seemed better in my opinion. Maybe lighter? Not sure but more fun. Then I went to LS motors and although the instant throttle is fun the speed in the dunes is still better with the low cog set up in my opinion.  My opinion is based of duning though, not drag racing. 

Hey Brandon, I can honestly say I am ready to give you a ride in my car.  One can not comprehend it until you feel it.  and you cant compare it to any other cogged motor! (even the previous ones)

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it is so funny to see all the comments about the Porsche motors when not to many have seen or worked on the,

for one, they are 1/3 larger in size than a LS motor,

they are heavier than a LS motor, 

they are dry sump and need to be started up properly (warm up) or they go threw oil,

the SG on the Water cooled motors are not really any different due to the size of them,

You have to deal with Dual cams and sinc issues with say a AEM system, not fun to wire,

or if you go with the old Air cooled, they not much to say it is Air Cooled, Now you have a Air cooled dual distributor motor with dual plugs dual problems with $5000 carburetors that can be hard to find parts for

as of center of gravity, Really! the LS is a all aluminum motor with a fiber intake, crazy light,    my car is 4000lbs with a iron block NO sway bar and sits on 39'' tires, with high sides with the rack and tires air up it is just under 6.5 feet tall    it slides like the best of them,

 

if someone was stuck on a V6  them outfront is the way to go,     when choosing a motor the first thought would be how much support follows the power train,

with a LS, Subi, and Honda you can find Tons of Support,  so if you have a issue it can be resolved quickly  

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2 hours ago, J Alper said:

it is so funny to see all the comments about the Porsche motors when not to many have seen or worked on the,

for one, they are 1/3 larger in size than a LS motor,

they are heavier than a LS motor, 

they are dry sump and need to be started up properly (warm up) or they go threw oil,

the SG on the Water cooled motors are not really any different due to the size of them,

You have to deal with Dual cams and sinc issues with say a AEM system, not fun to wire,

or if you go with the old Air cooled, they not much to say it is Air Cooled, Now you have a Air cooled dual distributor motor with dual plugs dual problems with $5000 carburetors that can be hard to find parts for

as of center of gravity, Really! the LS is a all aluminum motor with a fiber intake, crazy light,    my car is 4000lbs with a iron block NO sway bar and sits on 39'' tires, with high sides with the rack and tires air up it is just under 6.5 feet tall    it slides like the best of them,

 

if someone was stuck on a V6  them outfront is the way to go,     when choosing a motor the first thought would be how much support follows the power train,

with a LS, Subi, and Honda you can find Tons of Support,  so if you have a issue it can be resolved quickly  

  You've probably forgotten more things about motors than I've ever  known, but your opinion regarding the apparent lack of importance of a low CG, and the fact that a Porsche or Subaru flat 6 (not V6 BTW ) have massive benefits over a V8 when it comes to handling are simply not based on reality.  Even though the weight of a LS motor and a Flat 6 are similar, look at where the weight is between the 2 if you look at the horizontal centerline of the flywheels. There's just no comparison, and if you don't think that it makes a big difference in the handling in a car then you need to read up.

IMG_0375.jpg

2017-Porsche-911-Carrera-twin-turbocharged-3-0-liter-flat-6-engine-1023.jpg

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Posted (edited)

and may I add length too.  the v8 is like 28" long the Subaru is 17" long. so the v8 not only weighs more and is taller its "CoG'  is 14" back of the bellhousing and the Subaru is 7.5" back  that is huge!! oh and some wonder why the wheelies are so common in v8 cars.  BTW that motor above is Sexy!

Edited by John@Outfront Mtrsprts

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Some guys I pitted for in the 80's had a Fat performance 4 cyl Injected Porsche motor in their class 1 car....it was a beast at the time, high torque and low hp....built like a brick...couldn't kill it. Went to a Fat performance 6 cyl Porsche...couldn't keep transaxles in it.... sometimes less is more.......... remember...the field mouse is fast, but the owl sees at night.

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You know why?

Because LS!

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I just feel, that as big as the long travel car is, and as wide the cars are now, that the CG from a V8 to a Flat 6 is not going to make or break the car,  if the CG was so important, then don't buy a high side car, or put lights on the roof, the lights on a roof being that high would make a huge difference, 

at the end of the day I want the most reliable motor with the most support for it, so I Feel the Subi-Honda-Chevy is the best option, 

 

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Yes. There's no doubt a car with a flat 6 will have a CoG lower than that of a car with a V8, but that wasn't what the OP started this thread with. He asked why no one uses them. They are expensive when compared to an LS. I've got maybe 5 grand into my 6.0 and that includes the Holley injection. Is it perfect? Not even close but it fit the budget. 

When I went from a 3.5 to a 6.0 in my car I noticed a tendency for the car to have a lot of body roll when trying to turn sharply on relatively flat ground, my higher CoG was obviously playing a part in that. One of these days I will need to install a rear sway bar to settle it down a bit. And yes I agree that a sway bar is a work-around for a car with high CoG. My car is very predictable and I'm not likely going to change it. 

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I think the biggest reason no one uses a Porsche engine is they're too expensive. Probably the most expensive production car engine in terms of $ per hp.

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22 hours ago, socaldmax said:

I think the biggest reason no one uses a Porsche engine is they're too expensive. Probably the most expensive production car engine in terms of $ per hp.

 

nuff said.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-S-2-2-original-MFI-engine-complete-rebuilt-no-exchange-no-core/283538193529?hash=item4204317c79:g:uEsAAOSwTFRdHvwN

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Whats the difference between a porsche and a porcupine?

 

The prick is on the inside of the porsche!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 7/8/2019 at 4:21 PM, surf and dune said:

  You've probably forgotten more things about motors than I've ever  known, but your opinion regarding the apparent lack of importance of a low CG, and the fact that a Porsche or Subaru flat 6 (not V6 BTW ) have massive benefits over a V8 when it comes to handling are simply not based on reality.  Even though the weight of a LS motor and a Flat 6 are similar, look at where the weight is between the 2 if you look at the horizontal centerline of the flywheels. There's just no comparison, and if you don't think that it makes a big difference in the handling in a car then you need to read up.

IMG_0375.jpg

2017-Porsche-911-Carrera-twin-turbocharged-3-0-liter-flat-6-engine-1023.jpg

Well man purses are unarguably convenient however most of us don’t use them.... why? You know why... same goes for Porsche products  

To the OP the blatant obvious answer is costs. Porsche parts cost much more then Chevy parts. As per CG the pic Is very telling and wow those engines look crazy but Alper and I run iron blocks lol so the CG is prob pretty similar  to that sophisticated expensive man purse packing European motor 

 

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Posted (edited)

One might add the fact that no aluminum V8 at any horsepower level, with any amount of money,  in any car has ever won any EPO....:js:

It appears CoG is everything.  The Fun factor of the "flat 4" has proven that for years

Said another way, I would be willing to bet that even if your aluminum V8 engine cost $100,000 (more than the Porsche motor) it still wouldn't matter.  Therefore the purse size is secondary to the CoG issue.

 

Edited by John@Outfront Mtrsprts

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5 minutes ago, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

One might add the fact that no aluminum V8 at any horsepower level, with any amount of money,  in any car has ever won any EPO....:js:

It appears CoG is everything.  The Fun factor of the "flat 4" has proven that for years

 

due to the Flat 4 and Flat 6 air cooled motors, now all those people own SXS,   :rotf: because of the tinkering ever trip, 

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