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Why doesn’t anyone use a Porsche 911 (or any Porsche) engine?

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Just now, J Alper said:

due to the Flat 4 and Flat 6 air cooled motors, now all those people own SXS,   :rotf: because of the tinkering ever trip, 

air cooled 4 and 6cylinders???  how old are you anyways? cause that was back in the 90's  where have you been?:rotf:

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Just now, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

air cooled 4 and 6cylinders???  how old are you anyways? cause that was back in the 90's  where have you been?:rotf:

I thought I was lighting the world on fire with my Johnny Speed and Chrome chassis we welded our self, and had a 2276 with Dual IDA'a and Bugpack Superfows 

 

I really thought I made it in life when I Had Superflow heads LOL, and IDA's  felt like I was king of the world, 

and we never talked about HP,  it was always how much the car weighed,    

Life was so simple back then, and all the Rail guys hated the Quad guys,  now the Quad guys got SXS,   the war will never end LOL 

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I get the CoG argument, but with the handling trade-off, you get the instant torque of the LS.  A high strung 3.2L Subaru might make 750hp, but it's not the same 750hp that a 440ci LS will make.  That torque is what makes the LS cars fun even though it might give up a bit in the handling dept.

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15 minutes ago, 1newbie said:

I get the CoG argument, but with the handling trade-off, you get the instant torque of the LS.  A high strung 3.2L Subaru might make 750hp, but it's not the same 750hp that a 440ci LS will make.  That torque is what makes the LS cars fun even though it might give up a bit in the handling dept.

Haven't seen too many 450 4 stroke quads that can beat a banshee in a race...……...only need torque when you weigh 3000lbs...………….:1cheff:

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3 hours ago, J Alper said:

due to the Flat 4 and Flat 6 air cooled motors, now all those people own SXS,   :rotf: because of the tinkering ever trip, 

LOL reason i got rid of my vw was parts are getting more expensive and quality going down.Had a solid 2275 ran great very reliable(i worked on it and went maintain,etc between trips) but as kids got bigger i needed more power too finally ditched it and got a honda and said after why the hell didnt i do this earlier!Now i dont do much between trips and forgetting how to work on cars.

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On 7/8/2019 at 8:51 AM, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

no V8, na, turbo, blown or otherwise  could stand a chance against my flat 6 cylinder in the dunes, .......just say'n    

If a fella were to walk into your shop and want to buy the exact engine you have, how much is it going to cost him?

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6 hours ago, Jetjock15 said:

Well man purses are unarguably convenient however most of us don’t use them.... why? You know why... same goes for Porsche products  

To the OP the blatant obvious answer is costs. Porsche parts cost much more then Chevy parts. As per CG the pic Is very telling and wow those engines look crazy but Alper and I run iron blocks lol so the CG is prob pretty similar  to that sophisticated expensive man purse packing European motor 

 

   There's 2 types of motorsports fanatics. Those that think Nascar is the pinnacle of motorsports, and those that don't have their head stuck up their asses. 

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31 minutes ago, surf and dune said:

   There's 2 types of motorsports fanatics. Those that think Nascar is the pinnacle of motorsports, and those that don't have their head stuck up their asses. 

Not sure which category I fall into based on that logic but I will say those that carry man purses get defensive also.  I will concede I’m biased based on nationalism so if it comes to American versus other, I’m going American. So you don’t run an LS? I don’t drive Porsche nor wear a man purse but I admit my opinion is only my own and I support to no end the privilege for all to have their opinion and preference 

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1 hour ago, Kraut_n_Rice said:

If a fella were to walk into your shop and want to buy the exact engine you have, how much is it going to cost him?

turn key, just like mine  $28-30 k

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9 hours ago, Jetjock15 said:

Not sure which category I fall into based on that logic but I will say those that carry man purses get defensive also.  I will concede I’m biased based on nationalism so if it comes to American versus other, I’m going American. So you don’t run an LS? I don’t drive Porsche nor wear a man purse but I admit my opinion is only my own and I support to no end the privilege for all to have their opinion and preference 

Like most, I started out with VWs and graduated into LS's. The answer to the OPs question is obviously cost, not only cost of the motor, but service, parts, etc.  I'm sort of playing devils advocate in the discussion because if I or anyone else wanted the ultimate motor for a car built to turn as good as possible, a Subi motor would make alot more sense than a Porsche. Having said that, if money was no option, I think it would be cool as hell to have a lighter weight 2 seater  with a 500hp,  N/A 4 liter GT3rs motor that revs to 9000.  

 As to your man purse comment,it seems you're confusing Porsches with cars like Lambos, Ferrari, etc. which I agree are kind of douchy.  Porsches GT cars are designed and built to be driven hard around a track the same way we drive in the desert/ dunes, and then drive home. They are the ultimate go cart and driving one is an unforgettable experience. I can assure you that your opinion will change if you ever get the opportunity to drive one  

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6 minutes ago, surf and dune said:

 

 As to your man purse comment,it seems you're confusing Porsches with cars like Lambos, Ferrari, etc. which I agree are kind of douchy.  Porsches GT cars are designed and built to be driven hard around a track the same way we drive in the desert/ dunes, and then drive home. They are the ultimate go cart and driving one is an unforgettable experience. I can assure you that your opinion will change if you ever get the opportunity to drive one  

Here comes his Corvette is the answer to the ultimate go cart statement....

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Posted (edited)

All true yes I’d love to drive one. I’d even wear a man purse for the opportunity! 

It’s like the ford raptor to me, while the econoost makes more HP than the previous Gen 1 with big V8, they lost some customers with the current weed eater engine. I hope the gen 3 brings the big V8 back. There is no logic to this I just like the big V8. Kind of the same thing here. But yes I get it my logic has many flaws. I’d love to drive a Porsche on a track day don’t get me wrong and concede no American cars would likely keep up  

 

Edited by Jetjock15

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On 7/8/2019 at 7:42 AM, surf and dune said:

For the hell of it I looked up the cost of a GT3 motor. There's one on Ebay 2017 4.0 for $35,000.  Thats 500hp normally aspirated, 9000 rpm. That's a bulletproof motor that would sound insane in a rail, and handle a lot better than a LS motor, but it ain't cheap.

I was thinking the Carrera GT Motor would be Insane too!

:makerain:

 :lmao:

 

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1 hour ago, Jetjock15 said:

All true yes I’d love to drive one. I’d even wear a man purse for the opportunity! 

It’s like the ford raptor to me, while the econoost makes more HP than the previous Gen 1 with big V8, they lost some customers with the current weed eater engine. I hope the gen 3 brings the big V8 back. There is no logic to this I just like the big V8. Kind of the same thing here. But yes I get it my logic has many flaws. I’d love to drive a 3.2 liter SUBARU on a track day don’t get me wrong and concede no American cars would likely keep up  

 

fixed.......And this is why I go to the dunes^^^^^^^:thumbup:

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I think this is the best sounding motor ever!

A guy Newport Beach in a black one ..got on it, Oh man...thing of beauty!

That sound is insane!

Porsche-Carrera-GT-Engine.jpg

artur-perzyna-engine1-169.jpg

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Posted (edited)
On 7/8/2019 at 7:42 AM, surf and dune said:

For the hell of it I looked up the cost of a GT3 motor. There's one on Ebay 2017 4.0 for $35,000.  Thats 500hp normally aspirated, 9000 rpm. That's a bulletproof motor that would sound insane in a rail, and handle a lot better than a LS motor, but it ain't cheap.

This.

 

On 7/10/2019 at 5:40 AM, fastcorvairs said:

Air-cooled Porsche prices are insane these days.  An IMS-problem motor can be had for a lot less:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EN49-PORSCHE-996-02-05-911-CARRERA-3-6L-ENGINE-MOTOR-BLOCK-M96-03-M9603/133037971356?fits=Make%3APorsche&hash=item1ef9ae579c:g:zAEAAOSw2zZcyHWV

Get an IMS bearing kit and you're set.  The reason those motors are so undesirable is because you have to pull the transaxle or motor to fix the problem, which combined with the typical non DIY Porsche owner and extensive deconstruction of the car to get at it, means a humongous repair bill.  In a buggy, this is a non-problem.  

And IMS-problem free TT 996 motor is half the price of above:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-2004-Porsche-911-996-Turbo-Engine-996TT-Motor-Complete-Dropout-24k-Miles/153441405384?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D57922%26meid%3Dffef146803e643b1bfb5bbdcc3f83dad%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D133037971356%26itm%3D153441405384%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Combined with a tune:

996-Turbo-dyno.jpg

Make very respectable power and torque.  Keep in mind that's on a 4WD Mustang Dyno, which will read considerably lower than the Dynojet 248 a lot of shops run.  

But yeah, they're still more expensive than an LS. :bigrin 

Edited by Rockwood

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Rockwood said:

This.

 

Air-cooled Porsche prices are insane these days.  An IMS-problem motor can be had for a lot less:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EN49-PORSCHE-996-02-05-911-CARRERA-3-6L-ENGINE-MOTOR-BLOCK-M96-03-M9603/133037971356?fits=Make%3APorsche&hash=item1ef9ae579c:g:zAEAAOSw2zZcyHWV

Get an IMS bearing kit and you're set.  The reason those motors are so undesirable is because you have to pull the transaxle or motor to fix the problem, which combined with the typical non DIY Porsche owner and extensive deconstruction of the car to get at it, means a humongous repair bill.  In a buggy, this is a non-problem.  

And IMS-problem free TT 996 motor is half the price of above:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-2004-Porsche-911-996-Turbo-Engine-996TT-Motor-Complete-Dropout-24k-Miles/153441405384?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D57922%26meid%3Dffef146803e643b1bfb5bbdcc3f83dad%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D133037971356%26itm%3D153441405384%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Combined with a tune:

996-Turbo-dyno.jpg

Make very respectable power and torque.  Keep in mind that's on a 4WD Mustang Dyno, which will read considerably lower than the Dynojet 248 a lot of shops run.  

But yeah, they're still more expensive than an LS. :bigrin 

 

 Problem is (if you want to call it that. I would) is that the turbo motor doesn't sound or rev out anything like that video.  All of these discussions about what things cost and its importance, are so unique to the individual. We all enjoy a sport where people will spend $50k on a UTV, bling out a quad, spend shit tons on audio equipment, paint jobs, alcantara and ostrich upholstery etc. To be so quick to scoff at the idea of using alternative power plants seems laughable given the context, but whatever. The LS motor will always be the backbone of the rail game for obvious reasons, but if I had a couple hundred grand to spend on a rail, it would be a Funco chassis and either a AMG or Porsche GT motor. I could personally care less about being the absolute fastest in a straight line or doing wheelies. 

 Edited to ask whether or not that Titanium exhaust system comes with a man purse?  Asking for a friend.

Edited by surf and dune

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In other words.

 

The Juice just isn't worth the squeeze 

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On 7/11/2019 at 10:17 PM, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

turn key, just like mine  $28-30 k

How many seasons do YOU get out of your motor before you rebuild it?  And what does a rebuild cost the public?

I know you make several trips per season and run your car very hard each dune ride.  So I'm guessing us non super human guys would get 2-3 times or more seasons before a rebuild.

 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, surf and dune said:

 

 Problem is (if you want to call it that. I would) is that the turbo motor doesn't sound or rev out anything like that video.  All of these discussions about what things cost and its importance, are so unique to the individual. We all enjoy a sport where people will spend $50k on a UTV, bling out a quad, spend shit tons on audio equipment, paint jobs, alcantara and ostrich upholstery etc. To be so quick to scoff at the idea of using alternative power plants seems laughable given the context, but whatever. The LS motor will always be the backbone of the rail game for obvious reasons, but if I had a couple hundred grand to spend on a rail, it would be a Funco chassis and either a AMG or Porsche GT motor. I could personally care less about being the absolute fastest in a straight line or doing wheelies. 

 Edited to ask whether or not that Titanium exhaust system comes with a man purse?  Asking for a friend.

Yeah, wasn't apples to apples, and my second response was toward's Fastcorvairs' comment rather than yours.  GT3 or GT2 motor would be epic in a buggy though: light weight, dry sump so you can drop the motor even further and not only improve CoG, but also get more travel.  GT3 wins on sound and pure fun, GT2 trumps on power.  

And sorta: you get all the pursies (did I misspell that word?) you want when that motor revs.  I don't know of any men that have them unless we're turning this into a gender identity discussion... :bigrin 

Edited by Rockwood

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Would be really nice if Subaru made a factory 3.75L flat 6 turbo based on a STI motor with two extra cylinders.  At least then a turbo flat 6 wouldn't cost $20k+.....

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, 1newbie said:

Would be really nice if Subaru made a factory 3.75L flat 6 turbo based on a STI motor with two extra cylinders.  At least then a turbo flat 6 wouldn't cost $20k+.....

Would be really nice if Subaru hadn't gone from rallycar maker for the street...  To this:

2018_subaru_forester_outback_crosstrel_l

I think their joint Toyota project rubbed some of that Toyota snooze onto them...

 

Edited by Rockwood

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40 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Would be really nice if Subaru hadn't gone from rallycar maker for the street...  To this:

2018_subaru_forester_outback_crosstrel_l

I think their joint Toyota project rubbed some of that Toyota snooze onto them...

 

Subaru has always made several metrohomosexual and short gray haired lesbian cars. They only cool car they ever made was the rally style WRX.

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16 minutes ago, SANDPSYCHO said:

Subaru has always made several metrohomosexual and short gray haired lesbian cars. They only cool car they ever made was the rally style WRX.

Forester 2.5XT back in the day was effectively a lifted WRX wagon.  The Legacy GT was another winner.  Manuals were options on every car and CVTs weren't.

But yeah, they were always especially popular in Boulder, CO...

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22 hours ago, Flip-Flop said:

How many seasons do YOU get out of your motor before you rebuild it?  And what does a rebuild cost the public?

I know you make several trips per season and run your car very hard each dune ride.  So I'm guessing us non super human guys would get 2-3 times or more seasons before a rebuild.

 

My previous motor3.0 was 3 seasons, the current motor has been 2 years to date (except for a burnt valve due to a 5 gear 8100rpm pass that I shouldn't have done cause my injectors were not big enough.  to respond to how long does my personal motors last is impossible to answer as im always doing r &d and pushing them way past what anyone would do to it.  my current motor that was in a special race recently was the same motor from the previous year/race--only oil changes.  it is only coming out of my car now to make room for my next upgrade (read more hp).  a typical 4 cylinder motor if you handed me a motor (not a car) would be $4k,  a 6 cylinder would be $7k  that is a freshen up, not from a blown motor

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