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Why doesn’t anyone use a Porsche 911 (or any Porsche) engine?

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Devils advocate here...

A complete, decent HP LS is $7k.

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8 minutes ago, Kraut_n_Rice said:

Devils advocate here...

A complete, decent HP LS is $7k.

But, again...

:bigrin 

 

 

That being said... 

 

 

Edited by Rockwood

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0:40-:50 in the second video tells the story...

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On 7/12/2019 at 8:42 AM, Jetjock15 said:

All true yes I’d love to drive one. I’d even wear a man purse for the opportunity! 

It’s like the ford raptor to me, while the econoost makes more HP than the previous Gen 1 with big V8, they lost some customers with the current weed eater engine. I hope the gen 3 brings the big V8 back. There is no logic to this I just like the big V8. Kind of the same thing here. But yes I get it my logic has many flaws. I’d love to drive a Porsche on a track day don’t get me wrong and concede no American cars would likely keep up  

 

Raptor will have 5.2 L supercharged V8 / 700 HP in 2020. Same motor as Shelby GT500. The price will bump $15k.

 

Edited by ahipara 55

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On 7/11/2019 at 3:45 PM, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

One might add the fact that no aluminum V8 at any horsepower level, with any amount of money,  in any car has ever won any EPO....:js:

 

 

Or to put it in the words I've been using for years, every single sand rail EPO has been won by a Subaru powered Funco, regardless of driver. Not only is it a statement of facts readily verifiable, it says a lot about Funco handling and Subaru power and low CoG.

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2 hours ago, Kraut_n_Rice said:

Devils advocate here...

A complete, decent HP LS is $7k.

or a complete decent 3.5 Honda for even less with almost the same high CoG!  I mean if we are comparing stock built motors.  now ask anyone that has a fully built turbo v8 ls1 (rods pistons, ported heads, turbo, intercooler, wastegates etc)  or is that about $7k too

if the retort is well a 3.5 Honda may be cheaper but less hp too

I have always said that 100lbs of weight reduction is worth like $5k, so  you need to add $15k to the decent LS motor for the handicap of being top heavy

 

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28 minutes ago, socaldmax said:

 

Or to put it in the words I've been using for years, every single sand rail EPO has been won by a Subaru powered Funco, regardless of driver. Not only is it a statement of facts readily verifiable, it says a lot about Funco handling and Subaru power and low CoG.

I'll take that bet and one up you

every since john at Outfront has owned a Funco, its only been won by him.................

Edited by John@Outfront Mtrsprts

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Just now, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

I'll take that bet and one up you

every since john at out front has owned a Funco, its only been won by him.................

I don't doubt it.

I'd still like to see a ROC style race, with 5 all identical Funcos with identical Subaru engines randomly assigned to the drivers the day of the race. That would eliminate all other variables.

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3 minutes ago, socaldmax said:

I don't doubt it.

I'd still like to see a ROC style race, with 5 all identical Funcos with identical Subaru engines randomly assigned to the drivers the day of the race. That would eliminate all other variables.

how could you get 5 identical Funcos with the same motors?  I for one would not want to drive one with a v8 LOL.  you could just have one Funco that each person gets to drive, but who's going to sacrifice their car?  to a potential crash or roll over?

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This is NOT a criticism just an observation of what seperate the winner of EPO's from everyone else. 

The guy that wins the EPO's is willing to beat the living crap out of his car (even on a typical dune run) and blow up motors. There is a reason he has to rebuild and restructure a car that most every other Funco owner can run for years without issue. He also owns an engine shop and is pushing his engine for maximum proformance, not longevity. I'm not saying the man can't drive (just the opposite), just pointing out the difference between the guy that wins and the guys who's motors and cars last 10 years. That willingness and ability to push a car that hard I think is a bigger difference then the chassis and motor setup. 

If John built VW motors and drove a Prowler's beam car, I wouldn't bet against him.

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7 hours ago, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

how could you get 5 identical Funcos with the same motors?  I for one would not want to drive one with a v8 LOL.  you could just have one Funco that each person gets to drive, but who's going to sacrifice their car?  to a potential crash or roll over?

It was just a pipe dream.

 

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8 hours ago, Kraut_n_Rice said:

0:40-:50 in the second video tells the story...

What about the story of the Calloway Z06 that has over 200 hp more than the Porsche GT3 yet can't shake it???  Hmmmmm...  BTW, at 7:36 the 700+ hp Vette taps out!

 

Edited by surf and dune

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19 minutes ago, surf and dune said:

What about the story of the Calloway Z06 that has over 200 hp more than the Porsche GT3 yet can't shake it???  Hmmmmm...  BTW, at 7:36 the 700+ hp Vette taps out!

 

that about sums it all up!!! 

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7 hours ago, SANDPSYCHO said:

This is NOT a criticism just an observation of what seperate the winner of EPO's from everyone else. 

The guy that wins the EPO's is willing to beat the living crap out of his car (even on a typical dune run) and blow up motors. There is a reason he has to rebuild and restructure a car that most every other Funco owner can run for years without issue. He also owns an engine shop and is pushing his engine for maximum proformance, not longevity. I'm not saying the man can't drive (just the opposite), just pointing out the difference between the guy that wins and the guys who's motors and cars last 10 years. That willingness and ability to push a car that hard I think is a bigger difference then the chassis and motor setup. 

If John built VW motors and drove a Prowler's beam car, I wouldn't bet against him.

HeHe.............. BTW what's an EPO?

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8 hours ago, John@Outfront Mtrsprts said:

or a complete decent 3.5 Honda for even less with almost the same high CoG!  I mean if we are comparing stock built motors.  now ask anyone that has a fully built turbo v8 ls1 (rods pistons, ported heads, turbo, intercooler, wastegates etc)  or is that about $7k too

if the retort is well a 3.5 Honda may be cheaper but less hp too

I have always said that 100lbs of weight reduction is worth like $5k, so  you need to add $15k to the decent LS motor for the handicap of being top heavy

 

I guess since you brought Honda into the mix, you paid more for a turbo than a Honda engine costs.  You're comparing a very budget engine to your $30k+ engine.  Your subi would need to be 575lbs lighter by that logic.

If stock HP engine dollars are equal between Honda , LS1, and subi, the subi loses every time.  That low CoG is also expensive HP...

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12 hours ago, surf and dune said:

What about the story of the Calloway Z06 that has over 200 hp more than the Porsche GT3 yet can't shake it???  Hmmmmm...  BTW, at 7:36 the 700+ hp Vette taps out!

 

that looks more like set up than HP issues... that Vette looked like it was handling like complete chit

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This center of gravity on an engine hanging off the back of a custom built cars that have never been equally tested is all conjecture. 

What isn't is spending 20-30k and running race gas to get 500HP vs a junk yard LS3 with a cam running 91. 

 There is no replacement for displacement.

You wife would agree. :lol:

 

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Just now, Orange_R said:

that looks more like set up than HP issues... that Vette looked like it was handling like complete chit

your right!, sounds like with properly placed weight you can have less HP and better results.  +1 for why not use a 911 motor over a V8

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8 hours ago, SANDPSYCHO said:

This center of gravity on an engine hanging off the back of a custom built cars that have never been equally tested is all conjecture. 

What isn't is spending 20-30k and running race gas to get 500HP vs a junk yard LS3 with a cam running 91. 

 There is no replacement for displacement.

You wife would agree. :lol:

 

 2 things, 

1. A stock GT3rs motor puts out 520 hp on pump gas.

2. I've driven my wife in a GT3 a few times and she fully understands / appreciates what 9000rpm shifts sounds like.

3. She'd kill me if she knew what any of my toys cost. 

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Are we debating the advantages of a $60k (estimated used cost, since they are 'kinda hard' to get...) gt3 rs 520hp engine versus a $6k 520 hp LS engine?  

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1 hour ago, 1newbie said:

Are we debating the advantages of a $60k (estimated used cost, since they are 'kinda hard' to get...) gt3 rs 520hp engine versus a $6k 520 hp LS engine?  

Just sort of having fun for me. There was a couple comments earlier in the thread about a Porsche motor destroying the value of a rail, and asking "why" in general. Bottom line is that all things being equal, an LS is and will always be the smart choice for 90% due to cost and reliability. That doesn't mean that there aren't other options out there that would result in a MUCH better handling car if you had the money and the desire to explore them.  

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2 hours ago, surf and dune said:

Just sort of having fun for me. There was a couple comments earlier in the thread about a Porsche motor destroying the value of a rail, and asking "why" in general. Bottom line is that all things being equal, an LS is and will always be the smart choice for 90% due to cost and reliability. That doesn't mean that there aren't other options out there that would result in a MUCH better handling car if you had the money and the desire to explore them.  

I agree and enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy. Technically a tesla drivetrain could probably out handle a flat 6 and have a lower CoG although a weight penalty depending on size of battery bank.....

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41 minutes ago, 1newbie said:

I agree and enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy. Technically a tesla drivetrain could probably out handle a flat 6 and have a lower CoG although a weight penalty depending on size of battery bank.....

Not to mention the fuel burned charging the stupid thing. 

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No charging station at that BLM building?

That's racist....

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On 7/19/2019 at 7:23 AM, SANDPSYCHO said:

This center of gravity on an engine hanging off the back of a custom built cars that have never been equally tested is all conjecture. 

What isn't is spending 20-30k and running race gas to get 500HP vs a junk yard LS3 with a cam running 91. 

 There is no replacement for displacement.

You wife would agree. :lol:

 

Probably very conservative tunes.  A number of guys have made well over 400AWHP on ACN91 owl piss on a stock or mostly stock 2.5 STi.  

On 7/19/2019 at 6:44 PM, surf and dune said:

Just sort of having fun for me. There was a couple comments earlier in the thread about a Porsche motor destroying the value of a rail, and asking "why" in general. Bottom line is that all things being equal, an LS is and will always be the smart choice for 90% due to cost and reliability. That doesn't mean that there aren't other options out there that would result in a MUCH better handling car if you had the money and the desire to explore them.  

Price is obviously more, but I think the GT3 would be more reliable than a $6k 520hp LS as it's original purpose for existing (other than for rich dudes to be douchebags about) is FIA homologation (no engine mods other than an inlet restrictor for some cars) in the 24 hours of LeMans.  Realistically, while an LS can make as much power for cheaper, this is a hand-built factory showpiece designed from the group up entirely for racing and more comparable to a LS .R engine ($20-30k?) price/performance/reliability wise.  

Also: imagine the fun of pissing of Porsche-philes everywhere when you do something "not factory" with one of their most hallowed badges? :bigrin 

Edited by Rockwood

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