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Twin Turbo Tommy

Mid-life Crisis

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Two years ago I started out with a new build after I wreaked my other car..HRT built my chassis and I was gonna keep it mild on the motor with a LQ9 junk yard motor...Long story short at the end of this year on impulse and a little help and recommendation from Fullthrottleguy I sent my LQ9 to Turnkey in Oceanside ..After talking with Kolby and asking Alex(FTG) a million question I settled for a 408 stroker  twin turbo ..I'm pretty excited about it ..It goes to the dyno on Friday ..so we will see..it with be run on pump gas so it will still be a mild tune....Kolby at Turnkey gave me a killer price that I couldn't pass up ..here are a couple of pics and one short vid

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Congrats!  I have a Turnkey NA LS7 and love it.  Good thing you went with a twin turbo engine, but Junk Yard Tommy would have been a cool screen name.  And @fullthrottleguy definitely knows his engine stuff.  He's helped me out more times than I can remember.

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Nice. That's going to be fun to drive.  Congrats

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41 minutes ago, L.R.S. said:

.  And @fullthrottleguy definitely knows his engine stuff.  He's helped me out more times than I can remember.

I asked him so many questions ..And his answers were always more than what i was expecting..when i didnt understand something he went into full detail so i would...

I dont know about junk yard tommy...lol..Im glad twin turbo tommy doesnt make look like a poser anymore..lol

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36 minutes ago, sand phene said:

Nice. That's going to be fun to drive.  Congrats

Thank you ..Im looking forward to when the weather cools to get out there 

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Nice set up!  I have a twin turbo Turnkey LS 402 motor and its been a great motor. 

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Who sized that intercooler? Is it air only or water?

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Just now, Legit Duner said:

Who sized that intercooler? Is it air only or water?

I second that,  its way to small.  that is an air to air.  Regardless of if you are going to  make the intercooler bigger --it must have a HD pusher fan inside that scoop!  try monitoring the intercooler on your first few trips out.  pump gas and a small intercooler are not your pistons best friends

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2 hours ago, Twin Turbo Tommy said:

Two years ago I started out with a new build after I wreaked my other car..HRT built my chassis and I was gonna keep it mild on the motor with a LQ9 junk yard motor...Long story short at the end of this year on impulse and a little help and recommendation from Fullthrottleguy I sent my LQ9 to Turnkey in Oceanside ..After talking with Kolby and asking Alex(FTG) a million question I settled for a 408 stroker  twin turbo ..I'm pretty excited about it ..It goes to the dyno on Friday ..so we will see..it with be run on pump gas so it will still be a mild tune....Kolby at Turnkey gave me a killer price that I couldn't pass up ..here are a couple of pics and one short vid

40.jpg.a540afcc327c256899a67bb6ec85232c.jpg

531.jpg.8d3c9c8e3b0734abe16c5c88cb560748.jpg

20190707_180200.jpg.53117816f234f271865558220cb55939.jpg

20190707_180212.jpg.dc4bc4e856ba900ce81835c243d341cb.jpg

20190707_180222_jpg_428d3b25cd84fb5170a892d463d777a2.jpg

20190707_180233_jpg_a0090fb9ceabc16e67342395c115587e.jpg

So much for me keeping up with you guys now! If Scott gets a car too I will be straggling in the back

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TTT  thats one sexy Beast... Enjoy it

Regarding the Turnkey Intercooler ...

When I first saw  what they were using almost 10 years ago - I was so Skeptical because I  had learned a "formula for Sq inch sizing"  that I got in Turbonetics school,  and this feel short by about 1/2

However the intercooler does a pretty good job and most importantly has a very low pressure loss , by not being in front of a radiator or worse behind one it gets good flow, and the core is not one of those "Chinesium" poorly built cores.  a good spearco, bell or treadstone core is so much more efficient

That said - there is no way its going to cool 20 lbs of boost without lots of air coming through the scoop, but 10-15 is pretty easy

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15 hours ago, Legit Duner said:

Who sized that intercooler? Is it air only or water?

Its only Air ..and its only 10lbs of boost and Kolby at Turnkey build the complete engine so Im confident he knows what he doing ..

 

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13 hours ago, fullthrottleguy said:

TTT  thats one sexy Beast... Enjoy it

Regarding the Turnkey Intercooler ...

When I first saw  what they were using almost 10 years ago - I was so Skeptical because I  had learned a "formula for Sq inch sizing"  that I got in Turbonetics school,  and this feel short by about 1/2

However the intercooler does a pretty good job and most importantly has a very low pressure loss , by not being in front of a radiator or worse behind one it gets good flow, and the core is not one of those "Chinesium" poorly built cores.  a good spearco, bell or treadstone core is so much more efficient

That said - there is no way its going to cool 20 lbs of boost without lots of air coming through the scoop, but 10-15 is pretty easy

Thanks ..I appreciate all your help :drinkup:

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16 hours ago, dvs1 said:

Nice set up!  I have a twin turbo Turnkey LS 402 motor and its been a great motor. 

thanks bud..

 

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14 hours ago, punkur67 said:

So much for me keeping up with you guys now! If Scott gets a car too I will be straggling in the back

LOL ....we will put you in the middle..

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Looking good Tom, I can’t wait for next season. I guess I better get my act together and get ready. 

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1 hour ago, Djwc406 said:

Looking good Tom, I can’t wait for next season. I guess I better get my act together and get ready. 

I'm on your "six"..... never leave your wingman

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2 hours ago, Djwc406 said:

Looking good Tom, I can’t wait for next season. I guess I better get my act together and get ready. 

You get your motor fixed yet?

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1 hour ago, punkur67 said:

You get your motor fixed yet?

Nope I been lagging I’m pulling it out tomorrow 

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Spal 10" pusher fan on mine

0714191037.jpg

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8 hours ago, markcsand said:

Spal 10" pusher fan on mine

0714191037.jpg

Does that run consant?..or is the a sensor on it ?

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1 hour ago, Twin Turbo Tommy said:

Does that run consant?..or is the a sensor on it ?

I have one on the Subaru inside my scoop that is run from a switch on the dash. I turn mine on as soon as the car is started. I did not want my with ignition on cause I did not want to draw all the amps while trying to start. 

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11 hours ago, punkur67 said:

I have one on the Subaru inside my scoop that is run from a switch on the dash. I turn mine on as soon as the car is started. I did not want my with ignition on cause I did not want to draw all the amps while trying to start. 

You can't really measure IAT  and sense from that because it changes constantly with Boost and you would always be behind the curve

You could have the fan come on with boost and thats pretty easy and set a delay after boost falls off for say 2 minutes and that would make the most sense - or just probe the core with one of the those glue on surface temp probes  (assuming you can relate IAT to surface temp - and good luck with that)

Intercoolers  (Air to Air)  "should" and will cool off very quickly with air flow  - more air flow faster cooling and since you can't stay in heavy boost  (under load) for more than a few seconds You run out of room or flip the car, and most non-Idaho hills aren't that long.

And the most important thing to remember is unlike a radiator  - and air to air intercooler is basic empty after a boost seesion - you haver no residual hot fluid in there - the incoming air is only heated under pressure - the turbo spinning with little or no boost does not heat the air, so the intercooler is running cool. 

watching this on gauges is kinda eye opening.

the intercooler core "usually" cools off in a few seconds after a run as long as you keep moving  - this IAT pre and post intercooler -  is a measurement people do alot. They put a sensor in before the Intercooler and after and instrument the Delta. This is done to measure Heat soak - Basic the core never gets time to cool and the IAT (Intake Air Temp) keeps rising. 

Some ECM's can data log this too - its kinda useless but makes nice graphs

This is dual gauge setup is common on trucks pulling loads up grades and stuff like that where you might be in boost for many minutes. 

In a sand car, the boost is so transient, that even if you are in  1-5 lbs the IATs do not even heat the core since you are moving air over  the core (all bets are off if you have a windshield blocking air flow..) then you boost to 10-20 Lbs and hit that and you are back off the gas

Unlike a Positive displacement SC, boost is function of load on a Turbo car, so unless you are Baller with Turbo's that spin up at just off idle, you need to be loading the car hard to get into serious boost and keep it loaded to stay in serious boost  - Thats on big Cu v8 of course - Subi's and Hondas etc that don;t native have loads of TQ and usually (John Outfront excempted) have far less RWHP and can be in boost all the time  - after all Boost makes TQ, TQ moves the heavy car...

So in nearly every case, as long as you have good intercooler - well designed with lost of air flow and low pressure drop (high pressure make heat - high pressure intercoolers can actually raise the IAT instead of lowering - so when you buy that ebay core beware)  the core cools back down quickly , and there is almost no heat transfer from the engine if the core is isolated - it also helps to have the right sized BOV- this not only stops back pressure on the turbo (bad for a lot of reasons) but helps cool the core - the more efficient the core (less pressure differential) the  faster the core cools.  I have seen big "Chinesium" intercoolers on rice rockets that never cool off  - the internal core pressure can be 10 Lbs or higher - they are measuring boost before the IC and see 20lbs and they are maybe seeing 7-10 through the intake , where a good core might be 1-2 Psi. loss at best

So a fan is not a bad idea , except sometimes it is.. Like the fan on your radiator of your car, it does not cool as good as just get air through at 50MPH . On a street car the electric fan  has a cross over of about 30 MPH by what most manufacturers say  over 30 its a restriction, and thats why its behind and not in front of the radiator usually, and why most after market shrouds are built to let air flow through - I would not say thats always the case - but fans are a restriction and you might have an efficient intercooler and make heat soak worse by adding a fan. Spearco  published a lot about this before Turbonetics bought them. 

I think you want to use a fan, then you would want to have the maximum core coverage , a super high CFM fan, and keep the fan running all the time to have it really make any positive difference. 

If we weren't in the sand, the thing that some the fast street cars do that cools the core  instantly is spraying a bit of distilled water or better yet window washer (methanol) on the core . They use a pressure switch and as soon as boost comes on the spray starts and of course many people spray Nitrous at the core that works too but thats not cheap

I am not sold on fans without measuring IATs before and after and to see if heat soak really exists. Two gauges  are great - 1 gauge with a switch also works (that how my Camaro was set up)

Basic seems best when in doubt

FWIW

 

Edited by fullthrottleguy

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