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indianjoe

Stumped John Deere 4045 4 cyl diesel

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Posted (edited)

I have been trying to track down a intermittent problem for months it should be a very simple tractor engine but I am just stumped

 John Deere 4045TFM75  diesel on one of our tour boats

Here is what I have done so far.

1.New filter in the Racor water separator 20 micron and new secondary filters.
2.added 5 psi marine electric lift pump between the tank and Racor.
3 New mechanical lift fuel pump 
4 New injection pump ,fuel temp sensor and 4 new injectors installed and timed by John Deere marine mechanic.
5.added mechanical fuel pressure gauge at exit of secondary fuel filter before it goes to injection pump
6 changed  out return fuel line to the tank 
7 rerouted fuel vent hose so there it had no low points to catch fuel and block vent
8 inspected and cleaned every plug and connection through out the wire harness
Including grounds.
9. Changed out Murphy power view gauge
10 New Ecu installed by John Deere Mechanic

And I keep having the same problem
I will start the engine and fires up fine every perfect no hesitation at all
And it might run great for a few days 

But it dies and I can not get it started 
It throws code spn 1076 (Fuel Inj Pump Control Valve)   FMI 5. (High Resistance)


And will not restart  it might fired up for 2 or 3 seconds but is pretty much dead  but maybe 30 mins to an hour later if will fire up and run great again.

 

The last time I thought I had it with new injection pump it ran good for two weeks but the just on the way back to the dock just before landing it died again

When it happens I feel a small stutter the 20 sec later it dies no matter what throttle position 

At idle I have 6 psi fuel pressure and great flow under load it drops maybe to 3.5 psi John Deere says all it needs is 2 to 3 psi feed to run

I took the return line off and found that the hose had an adapter with a 1/8 hole
changed it out to a little bigger opening and seems to flow fine
No change in fuel pressure.

I also took the return off and put a 3/8 clear hose and just ran it back to the fuel fill to see if there where any air pockets that would show up but just some very very small bubbles hardly noticeable fuel temp coming out is 120 degrees

It feels like the ecu is shutting down the fuel pump and will not let it fire back up

Engine temp has never been over 183 degrees

 

 

 

 

Edited by indianjoe

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Just curious...

 

 

have you replaced the fuel injection pump control valve?

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Yes that inside the injection pump

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OK, if you're sure you didn't get another bad control valve in the new pump (it happens sometimes) then what I would do is carefully check the 2 or 3 wires that go to that control valve. If you keep getting the

spn 1076 (Fuel Inj Pump Control Valve)   FMI 5. (High Resistance) error code then I would tend to believe that you are, in fact getting high resistance in the control valve wiring, which means an intermittent open wire to that valve.

It seems like the problem only crops up after it's been running awhile or warmed up. You might have a partially broken wire that's not visible due to the insulation, or a bad connection where the wire is crimped to the pin. 

Here's what I'd do. At the dock, start the engine and separate the few wires to the control valve from the rest of the harness. Start firmly pulling on one wire a few inches from the connector, then hold the wire a few inches from the connector and pull on the next few inches, putting a medium strain on the wire a few inches at a time until the entire wire has been tested or until the control valve shuts off. If it does, you know you've found your bad wire. I'd test each wire one by one until the bad one is found. Cut out the bad section and replace it with some new wire and heat shrink crimp connectors.

If you have access to a Time Domain Reflectometer (TDR) it can shoot a signal and tell you where the break or almost break is, within an inch or less. It has such a precise display, it will show a short, an open, change in insulation type, change in inductance or capacitance and a bad connection say at an SMA, C, BNC or F type connector.  You can rent them for pretty cheap from a test equipment rental shop if you don't want to pull on the wires. The signal starts from the left of the screen and goes to the right. The end of your wire will look like a sharp drop off. Any dips in the signal to the left of the drop off would indicate either a break in the wire or a near break with increased resistance. Using the scale on the screen, you can count the inches to the break. You might have to get a BNC to single wire adapter to go with the TDR to hook it up.

Good luck, let us know how it goes!
 

 

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How old is the boat?  We had a similar problem on a machine and the fuel line from the tank to the filters was collapsing and shutting down the engine.  It really didn’t matter if it was idling or wide open.  Or you could call @Grease Monkey.   

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Posted (edited)

Always try the easiest thing first. Next time it happens, remove the fuel cap. I had this same issue with my JD dozer. The fuel cap wasn’t breathing and it suctions the fuel and keeps it from getting to the motor. It ends up burning up the fuel pump. If it sits it slowly releases the pressure and it will run again. New fuel cap will fix the problem. Worth a try

Edited by B0NES

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Do you or have you had issues with algae build up? 

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X2 for the Greasy Monkey

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Maybe throw this on Trawlerforum.com There are some smart people there too.

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Is the fuel pump control valve just a solenoid that allows fuel to the injection pump?

As Steve said, wiring to this would probably be where I'd focus my attention.

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4 hours ago, B0NES said:

Always try the easiest thing first. Next time it happens, remove the fuel cap. I had this same issue with my JD dozer. The fuel cap wasn’t breathing and it suctions the fuel and keeps it from getting to the motor. It ends up burning up the fuel pump. If it sits it slowly releases the pressure and it will run again. New fuel cap will fix the problem. Worth a try

He said the tank has a vent line. Usually in a marine application, if the fuel fill is above deck, then the cap will be water/air tight to keep sea water out.

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5 hours ago, ROBERT L said:

How old is the boat?  We had a similar problem on a machine and the fuel line from the tank to the filters was collapsing and shutting down the engine.  It really didn’t matter if it was idling or wide open.  Or you could call @Grease Monkey.   

He said he installed a lift pump. That means the fuel lines are now pressurized, not under suction.

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15 minutes ago, socaldmax said:

He said he installed a lift pump. That means the fuel lines are now pressurized, not under suction.

Are you assuming that he mounted it on the tank outlet? Because I didn’t read it that way.                              

2.added 5 psi marine electric lift pump between the tank and Racor.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, ROBERT L said:

Are you assuming that he mounted it on the tank outlet? Because I didn’t read it that way.                              

2.added 5 psi marine electric lift pump between the tank and Racor.

That's typically where lift pumps are mounted, as close to the tank as possible.

He's also been monitoring fuel pressure at the Racor filters. 6 psi at idle, 3.5 psi under load. I'm assuming he would have noticed if fuel pressure had turned to vacuum, as it would have if the engine was starved for fuel. 

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20 minutes ago, socaldmax said:

That's typically where lift pumps are mounted, as close to the tank as possible.

He's also been monitoring fuel pressure at the Racor filters. 6 psi at idle, 3.5 psi under load. I'm assuming he would have noticed if fuel pressure had turned to vacuum, as it would have if the engine was starved for fuel. 

Cool thanks for the clarification 

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15 minutes ago, ROBERT L said:

Cool thanks for the clarification 

You are right though, there's a couple/3 assumptions in there!

:lol:

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i had a deer in one of my grinders and had alot of electrical problems seem like they liked to have alot of splices and taps in the wire harness just covered with tape and a few diodes the same way. go over the harness real good. if you clear the code does it start or is the code active

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I'm out of town but calling my shop would work. Ask for Scott. He's my Deere guy. 

One thing I want to mention. You may have fixed it already but added a problem in the process. 

Racor filters work on the suction side of the lift pump. If you add a fuel pump between the tank and that filter, you now change how the filter works. The racor has a float ball within the venturi that will float in water and not in diesel fuel. This is designed to shut down most of the flow of the filter if it fills with water. 

Problem with sending fuel thru this filter. (pressure) is it can make that ball lift and close off your fuel supply.

Put the fuel pump after the Racor if you still think it's needed, then add a vacuum gauge to the Racor. We have the t handle gauge adapters in stock. Swap out the t handle from the lid and put in the vacuum gauge.

Erik.

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Had a similar problem on a komatsu pc200 excavator. Turned out that one of the banjo bolts before the injector pump had a screen in it and it was totally blocked. 

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Posted (edited)

I have been working on it pretty much all day 

I tied the boat to the piling and let it run at our docks  at seems that I can get it to shut down after about an hour under heavy load

moved the ecu away from engine to see if heat had anything to do with it but no difference 

I pinned in wires in the harness going to the injection pump all checked out I might just bypass them tomorrow just to rule it out

thanks grease monkey I will put the lift pump on the other side of the rancor

(oops I think I have 4 boats set up that way much easier to bleed )

Got some fuel line seals  and a new crank sensor I will play with those  tomorrow 

Edited by indianjoe

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