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hybridtoys

Cv joint alignment...?! Help..

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Hey all, I dont know what the hells going on or what I'm mising here...

I Changed my outer CV and put a new CM cage in the old inbord side. I was very carefull to keep the Axle going the same direction. I cant seem to get the CV's to line up?!?! They are about 5* off, The Housing groves are going the correct way from what I remember. Im not sure what is going on, I took it for a test run and it was clicking super loud now, at all points of suspension articulation. I originally changed the CV because I thought I might have  miss aligned the CV's the last time. When I was just cruising the access rd I could see the Axle pop up just a smidge  up or  (inboard) just a little as it clicked at about 5mph.... 

I thought changing the CV would do it and at the same time I could check the alignment. My old ones were pretty rough but good to keep as spares...  Anyone have any thoughts? I will try to measure the actual angle in a day or so when I get back to the shop... I included just a couple of old pics when I mocked up the new brakes.. they are just sitting there but you can see the angle's sorta. 

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Are you trying to 'clock' your CV's to one another?  If so, it's not necessary.  I won't hurt, but it absolutely will not help either.

Hard to tell from the last pic but did you make sure the CV star is clocked correctly in the CV body?  It needs to be big to little, little to big.

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Hard to tell from the pic but you might have them put together wrong?  The big lug on the star should align with the small lug on the CV body... The "Race prepped" or tapered side of the CV cage should be on the axle side of the CV.  One side of the star should have a lip on it...that should be on the axle side of the CV.

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Put them together wrong.  What LRS and jwest2sh said is correct.

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And looking at picture it looks as if you have small to small, large to large from my view. (star-body)

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Wow that is a great article, Ill head over to the shop tomorrow, and double check. I'm excited to try it. Its kinda the last thing I need to fix, except the cosmetic stuff. thanks guys

 

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Posted (edited)

Well, I looked it over and it looks correct, but the NEW cv isnt smooth like the other one... when I put it together I didnt think much of it because I thought it was tight because its was new... now im wondering if I just have a bad NEW CV....  ;(

They look correct, big, ~> small, lip toward center of axle,  big opening of the cages toward center of axle,  The pics are of each CV in and out board...

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Edited by hybridtoys

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This is each end inside and outer, One side is easy and smooth the other one binds.... Is this normal?

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Those look right to me.  I'm having the same issue.  I put a new star in my outer midboard CV and now it binds.  It was clicking last season but I couldn't find any damage.  I'm wondering if its a mis-shaped ball or something?

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They are assembled correctly in those pics.  Probably not what you want to hear but take them all the way down, clean them up and check them.  Put them together dry and see if you can move the star around.  You should be able to move it.  If it doesn't move and is binding then 'race prep' it.  That means taking a Dremel with a grinding/polishing stone to all the sharp edges- the body, the star and the cage.  Put it back together and see if you can articulate it.

 

 

Canon_PowerShot_A1400609.JPG

You want to turn this...

 

 

 

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...into this.

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you should change the balls too.   cheap and they do wear out too.  think about it the balls really take all the beating.  No binding is normal everything should move smooth.    You don't need to make sure the bolt holes match up on the axle if that is what you are trying to do with the yellow marks.  CV's can be clocked on a axle anyway, the tire side moves so easy to bolt up and it doesn't matter to the CV's

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Not sure if this was mentioned, but did you turn it by hand at ride height (jack under the arm)?  Can determine a lot that way.  

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Posted (edited)

OK well, I decided to buy another CV because I was tired of messing with it. When I pick up the other CV he mentioned I should race prep it..  I did that a little when I got it.. but this time I really went for it on both new ones..  they freed up a little but still binds a bit... The more more important issue is the New CV's were a super tight fit to the Axle now, I needed a rubber mallet to get them to go on. I didnt  (beat the hell out of it), but it took some time plus it was tight the whole way of the axle threads. When I was trying to get it to slide back off the Axle I noticed the Axle seems to have cut the Inside star.. I totally dont get whats going on with this friken thing... Its on my last nerve, and I dont think it needs axles.. I dont get what the issue is?!?! Is this some kind of special, or custom cut axle? I noticed, on my old ones (they slid right off, tight but easily movable  -regular wear-). The new CV center stars teeth (Teeth to axle fit) were a bit different.  they have A slightly deeper V shaped stlye.. I had to file the end of the axle just a bit to get it to bite. 

All I know is ...Im super over it.... I've missed 2 trips trying to fix a stupid faint axle click from last year thinking it would be just a simple CV swap... now I've burned 400$ on BS new parts... & I'm getting to the point of just bolting it together and saying F-it send it till it breaks...  

Do I have a bad set up here or??? what? 

First pic is of the Old CV..

Then the close up of the CV and the burr created by my stupidity of driving the new one on there because I was trying to go...

Then the CV joint now raced prepped..

I snapped a pic of the CV slid almost off the axle, you can see the Burr on the Center star... 

What am I missing about this assembly? Last Pic.. 

Quote

 

 

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Edited by hybridtoys

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Sounds like you are just about to get it fixed, don't give up yet!  Take a small triangle file and first make sure the axle splines don't have any burrs.  Then work the file on the splines inside the star.  It won't take too much, but they should slide freely on the axle.  

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Don't know how others do it but that's not how I 'race prep' a CV. I just take a Dremel to the edges of the star, body and cage to knock down the sharp edges. 

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1 hour ago, L.R.S. said:

Don't know how others do it but that's not how I 'race prep' a CV. I just take a Dremel to the edges of the star, body and cage to knock down the sharp edges. 

This^^^

CVs will sometimes click, that isn't completely "abnormal" depending on the severity of it. There is a difference between clicking and binding.  Personally I'd install .001" smaller balls before removing material from the ball ways but that's just preference. Those stars and bodies look like they need to be polished with finer abrasive some more. They would work much better if polished. 

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Posted (edited)

I know I am late to the game here...It sure looks like they are together right - and just too much angle - was it measured - were straps changed? Did  the old CV have the Stars undercut and now the axles pulling on the cages when in full droop?

Race prep will give you a couple degrees more angle and thats the Only time it "benefits"  If the angle is not severe it literally does nothing other than keeping the CV's running cooler. You are basically loosening up tolerances.

Some people feel that race prep can stop components from cracking due to removal of stress risers  by smoothing edges.  However just like polishing connecting rods if you go the wrong directions use will cause stress.

There are a couple methods out there I see deployed. Racers throw CV's away  alot so they won't prep maybe like my full season or two CV life...

The first is just to open up the cage and removed the burrs and smooth the entrance and exits for the balls on the race and star. The seems to be just good practice to eliminate any manufacturing defects and if done right remove stress risers.   A lot of people throw the parts in the tumbler afterward to keep everything smooth

The second is what we call the EMPI race prep. Thats just the use of .002 under balls. Has the same affect as loosening tolerances. Lots of people do this in conjunction with tumbling the parts  like EMPI does. This actually works surprisingly well IMO.

 The third is how I was taught to race prep the CV's  and its a lot of work.   Start by measuring everything up and inspecting everything for pits.. Then you take the race and use 120 sandpaper square roll with grinders grease on a die grinder, polish each channel and smooth the entry and exits  then do the Star same way. then follow up with a 360 0r 400 grit roll. Hit the race and star with diesel fuel and drop in the tumbler with "brown triangle grit for about 4 hours. Use standard balls and a Good 300M rem polished cage like a fortin - needs no work. Hit everything with Diesel again to clean it all and assemble.

 

 

Edited by fullthrottleguy

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All sharp edges need to be sanded as stated by LRS. I buff every edge. When you put the cv together afterwards, it should swivel easily.

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That star is not race prepped. 

This is race prepped. 

51A64F9A-FE68-4E40-AA2D-15EA8AC3C454.thumb.jpeg.98ce476e77c6fec3c64c8b746de7f7bd.jpeg

something going on with your axle if u have to use a mallet and then your star looks like that. 

My stuff literally falls together. 

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those are heat treated surfaces I think i would start over with another CV sorry to say.   if they are 935 go buy the EMPI .  i put a complete set on for $400 and a season later they look new.  Didn't even clean them up.  if they are 930 give Jason Alper a call. 

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Yea, i never had any problems other than a quiet little click on the left side axle... I dont drive it like I stoll it but I have done plenty of racing and hard playing. I've never had a problem with axle fitment amd new parts untill now. I'll go ahead and pull them apart again and fully clean them up.  Snap pics of both new and used parts... i really dont want to buy a whole complete axle CV set up when all this started with a soft ckicking... 

I also agree, if I was fully racing I would have the calipers out and would be blueprinting each CV. I like the idea of the .001 or .002 smaller balls.. wonder if thats what was previously in it. I'll get it all broke down and measured up. I have a new job and finally I can start going again, I haven't been able to go in 2 years!  Even still I'm only going to get 2 or 3 trips in now it late in the year. 

My biggest worry is why the inner star so tight against the axle? It cut the star when I stupidly used a mallet to get it on..  (I had a real F-it I'm going! ) momentary lapse of judgment I'll admit...

My old CVs slid right off, clearly there was some wear but these new ones are so tight there all burred up and stuper stiff when slidinguo and down the axle with or without grease. I thought it was crud in the splines but i pulled them apart and super cleaned them up and its clearly some fitments issue..? 

Could these axles be something special or odd? As far as i knew all this stuff just slides together (just like it always has) and now I'm looking at new axles. I'm actually ready to just use the old beat up center stars and put them in the new joints just so I can use the damn thin ;'( its a very expensive shelf at this point...

Side note I really appreciate everyone's input ✌

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1 hour ago, hybridtoys said:

Yea, i never had any problems other than a quiet little click on the left side axle... I dont drive it like I stoll it but I have done plenty of racing and hard playing. I've never had a problem with axle fitment amd new parts untill now. I'll go ahead and pull them apart again and fully clean them up.  Snap pics of both new and used parts... i really dont want to buy a whole complete axle CV set up when all this started with a soft ckicking... 

I also agree, if I was fully racing I would have the calipers out and would be blueprinting each CV. I like the idea of the .001 or .002 smaller balls.. wonder if thats what was previously in it. I'll get it all broke down and measured up. I have a new job and finally I can start going again, I haven't been able to go in 2 years!  Even still I'm only going to get 2 or 3 trips in now it late in the year. 

My biggest worry is why the inner star so tight against the axle? It cut the star when I stupidly used a mallet to get it on..  (I had a real F-it I'm going! ) momentary lapse of judgment I'll admit...

My old CVs slid right off, clearly there was some wear but these new ones are so tight there all burred up and stuper stiff when slidinguo and down the axle with or without grease. I thought it was crud in the splines but i pulled them apart and super cleaned them up and its clearly some fitments issue..? 

Could these axles be something special or odd? As far as i knew all this stuff just slides together (just like it always has) and now I'm looking at new axles. I'm actually ready to just use the old beat up center stars and put them in the new joints just so I can use the damn thin ;'( its a very expensive shelf at this point...

Side note I really appreciate everyone's input ✌

I wonder if there is some sort of manufacturing defect on the spines on the new star?  When you pull them back apart hold it up to the old star and see if they match up. Maybe try and slide it on the other end of the axle just to see if it's the axle and not the star?  If it's a bad star you could probably return it or get a replacement.  I've had to file the grooves on the axle to get the star off before because it was mushroomed from hitting the cut on the axle but that doesn't sound like it's your problem?  As far as I know there is only one spline pattern for each size axle?  Make sure you didn't get a 31 or 33 spline star if you have something different...

 

~jw

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Since your working with used axles, have you checked to see if the splines have a small twist in them? If they do, your old cvs would have clearanced themselves over time while driving and would have slid right off. Your new cv won’t want to fit. With everything your saying, it sounds like this is your culprit.

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Ok, so I finally had time to get stuff apart cleaned and then remeasured. I was using a harbor freight caliper so I just took a bunch of measuements and wrote them down because its not the greatest tool. I think with a better race prep the clicking will mellow out... I am however worried about the burrs caused by trying to get it on the axle.. I can file it a bit more, but its kinda concerning.

 

I took the one I had to replace mid trip last year, (no race prep).... then the super old one that had a little click (no surprise looking at its condition).... and lastly the new ones (I'm working on a little better race prep) 

I measured the

1:Inner star inside (star to axle surface -inside spline-) 

2: Axle -outer spline- (axle to star surface)

3: Ball diameter (last measurement was in usa not mm)

So from this sort of rudimentary set up.. is anything out of the ordinary? Or special?  Undersized or..? 

I will do my best to measure my axle twist next.. might be a tough though..

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