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urclever

Need advice on making the switch again. give up the TH

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I have beat this topic up a few times. but after this last trip to Oregon, I am trying to simplify. I have my beautiful 40CRXL genesis that is fully loaded. It works great but the 5 pee breaks and hungry etc. I am leaning towards the moho again. I keep thinking I can use for boat, car shows,  Harley trips and off road. Since Pismo was my biggest concern besides the need for an emergency vehicle.

 

So I know DP is the best way to go but here are my thoughts. needs beds for the kids (2 girls) and a bedroom set up for the wife and I and possibly one drunken bed for myself of when a friend come along.

 

I have found these thor outlaws and I know they are a gasser buy anyone have real testimony for them. I like the idea of having a toyhauler moho because I do trips by myself at times and wouldn't need to tow a trailer.

https://www.rvt.com/Thor-Motor-Coach-Outlaw-37BG-2017-Las-vegas-NV-ID8563240-UX306349

or 

https://www.rvt.com/Thor-Motor-Coach-Outlaw-37RB-2016-Thousand-Oaks-CA-ID8723829-UX76805?fbclid=IwAR3HWlHcrMurS1iCrAPm8EDjbyLKI-7PMrMPaUdXyKlJpNZzWkox_a2Ogy0

The question is how much of dog are these? Will it still pull a trailer with a car or sxs's in it up grapevine or Tehachapi's etc? Any negatives. 

Or I like these Itasca solei because of the bunk bed features.

https://www.happydazerv.com/product/used-2014-itasca-solei-38r-1083867-10

Would love to hear your inputs. 

 

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The power wont be an issue, these modern v10 and 8.1l make lots of power. I sit at 25k lbs, can pull mt.springs at 65 without flogging it and average 7mpg. 

 

What you will hate..... the ride. Nothing rides like the pushers on bags. Workhorse/spartans ride like work trucks, because thats what they are. My next moho will be pusher on air

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Stay off the internet and get back to work. 😎

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Hate to be a bad influence but with a DP, you can get a stacker and have more toys (I can theoretically get 4 RzR's in my stacker).  With that said, IDK if I would do a moho/stacker again.  I did it for the same reason you want one (bathroom breaks with 3 girls.....) but with insurance, payments, storage, maintenance, etc. it is a pricey toy that I don't use that often......

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37 minutes ago, 1newbie said:

Hate to be a bad influence but with a DP, you can get a stacker and have more toys (I can theoretically get 4 RzR's in my stacker).  With that said, IDK if I would do a moho/stacker again.  I did it for the same reason you want one (bathroom breaks with 3 girls.....) but with insurance, payments, storage, maintenance, etc. it is a pricey toy that I don't use that often......

I hear that.  I had a paid-off DP and stacker and it still felt like it was expensive AF - and we even used ours a lot.  The costs + stress over camping in dirt, mud and sand with low-hanging trees with that kinda $ into a rig was enough for us to go back to a 5'er.  Well, that and the fact that (with the trailer) it didn't fit in most of the parts that are an hour or two away from our house, and our focus shifted a bit away from Glamis. 

 

 

You remember my gas Class A, right? 

oregontrip_zpslue55prl.jpg

That's how we rolled to the Oregon dunes.  20' flat bed trailer, '16 XPT and '15 XP 1000 (obviously both 2 seaters as you can see).  I never weighed that trailer, but for a flatbed it was a little on the heavy side (with the sort of double-level frame).  The rig was a '09 (so the later 3-valve V10) and it had the full Banks Power Pack (intake, headers, full exhaust, tune, etc. which makes a BIG difference).  It got the job done, but honestly it kind of sucked and I couldn't even imagine it without the Banks stuff.  I actually really liked the layout and size of that gasser (34' with slides only on the driver's side and a King Bed) so once it was at camp we loved it.  But with that trailer and 2 RZRs it struggled on the rolling hills of 5 up in Norcal and on into Oregon.  It was a constant cycle of picking up speed on the downhill (maybe a bit more than I was comfortable with) then heading into the hill pinned, downshift or two (and it had the "good" Torqshift trans) and screaming 5k RPM up the hill sometimes at like 35.  It was loud, it was stressful, and it also blew all over the road.  It was actually much better for stability with the trailer on it, but without a trailer it was a handful.  I think the bigger Class A Gassers are just too light for as much cross-sectional area as they have.  It's nearly as big of a sail as our DP, but weighed literally half as much (or less) with way narrower tires, and less of them (IIRC the gasser has 245 width tires, the DP had 315s all around and the DP had 8 with the tag axle vs. 6 on the gasser).  

In hindsight there's a part of me that thinks I should have just kept that gasser and the 28' box trailer we had at the time and had Melissa just tow the box trailer with my truck.  But then again, I HATED driving that thing.  You're used to your truck and 5'er, you're going to hate a gasser.  I was so used to how my truck towed (stable, no sway, great braking, and plenty of power to do 60+ up everything) that when I got in the gasser it was a bad experience.  It got knocked all over the road by wind or trucks, the power without a trailer was decent, but with a trailer it was pretty "meh" and the juice-brakes on a rig that big suck.  

IMHO if you're thinking of something OTHER than a diesel pusher you should ONLY look at diesel Super Cs.   I know you, you won't be happy w/ the gasser.  You're used to your truck that's stable, stops well, and pulls hard.  The gassers are loud an ride like a FedEx truck (cuz that's all the chassis is).  The DPs are way, way, way quieter and smoother.  But that wasn't even the big deal.  The big deal was just being a two-hand, white-knuckle drive at all times vs. the DP I could one-hand (really one-finger) in any weather, passing Semis, stacker or no trailer, just always solid. 

 

 

 

Now, all of that said, the gasser game is about to change a bit.  Ford just announced a 7.3 liter push-rod V8 that will become the standard F53 motor I'm pretty sure.  It should have a lot more power and torque than the SOHC 6.8L V10 and I think they're going to use the 10 speed trans on it.  That could change things a little... but I still think the juice brakes and stability won't make you very happy. 

 

-TJ

Edited by tjZ06

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36 minutes ago, 1newbie said:

Hate to be a bad influence but with a DP, you can get a stacker and have more toys (I can theoretically get 4 RzR's in my stacker).  With that said, IDK if I would do a moho/stacker again.  I did it for the same reason you want one (bathroom breaks with 3 girls.....) but with insurance, payments, storage, maintenance, etc. it is a pricey toy that I don't use that often......

I guess I didn't think of the other crap, insurance and maintenance would be the item I should consider. 

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My thought is stopping and taking a break every few hours is not such a bad thing. Stretch, go to the bath room, get a snack refreshes me and makes my drive more relaxing, but then I'm not on a clock. Not sure I would use this to justify making such an expensive decision. 

Edited by Richard H

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16 minutes ago, tjZ06 said:

I hear that.  I had a paid-off DP and stacker and it still felt like it was expensive AF - and we even used ours a lot.  The costs + stress over camping in dirt, mud and sand with low-hanging trees with that kinda $ into a rig was enough for us to go back to a 5'er.  Well, that and the fact that (with the trailer) it didn't fit in most of the parts that are an hour or two away from our house, and our focus shifted a bit away from Glamis. 

 

 

You remember my gas Class A, right? 

oregontrip_zpslue55prl.jpg

That's how we rolled to the Oregon dunes.  20' flat bed trailer, '16 XPT and '15 XP 1000 (obviously both 2 seaters as you can see).  I never weighed that trailer, but for a flatbed it was a little on the heavy side (with the sort of double-level frame).  The rig was a '09 (so the later 3-valve V10) and it had the full Banks Power Pack (intake, headers, full exhaust, tune, etc. which makes a BIG difference).  It got the job done, but honestly it kind of sucked and I couldn't even imagine it without the Banks stuff.  I actually really liked the layout and size of that gasser (34' with slides only on the driver's side and a King Bed) so once it was at camp we loved it.  But with that trailer and 2 RZRs it struggled on the rolling hills of 5 up in Norcal and on into Oregon.  It was a constant cycle of picking up speed on the downhill (maybe a bit more than I was comfortable with) then heading into the hill pinned, downshift or two (and it had the "good" Torqshift trans) and screaming 5k RPM up the hill sometimes at like 35.  It was loud, it was stressful, and it also blew all over the road.  It was actually much better for stability with the trailer on it, but without a trailer it was a handful.  I think the bigger Class A Gassers are just too light for as much cross-sectional area as they have.  It's nearly as big of a sail as our DP, but weighed literally half as much (or less) with way narrower tires, and less of them (IIRC the gasser has 245 width tires, the DP had 315s all around and the DP had 8 with the tag axle vs. 6 on the gasser).  

In hindsight there's a part of me that thinks I should have just kept that gasser and the 28' box trailer we had at the time and had Melissa just tow the box trailer with my truck.  But then again, I HATED driving that thing.  You're used to your truck and 5'er, you're going to hate a gasser.  I was so used to how my truck towed (stable, no sway, great braking, and plenty of power to do 60+ up everything) that when I got in the gasser it was a bad experience.  It got knocked all over the road by wind or trucks, the power without a trailer was decent, but with a trailer it was pretty "meh" and the juice-brakes on a rig that big suck.  

IMHO if you're thinking of something OTHER than a diesel pusher you should ONLY look at diesel Super Cs.   I know you, you won't be happy w/ the gasser.  

 

 

 

Now, all of that said, the gasser game is about to change a bit.  Ford just announced a 7.3 liter push-rod V8 that will become the standard F53 motor I'm pretty sure.  It should have a lot more power and torque than the SOHC 6.8L V10 and I think they're going to use the 10 speed trans on it.  That could change things a little... but I still think the juice brakes and stability won't make you very happy. 

 

-TJ

Thanks I need an honest opinion and you do know me well enough.

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Keep your rig and just slow your roll to get there and getting back home.  Just start stopping at every rest stop so they can pee and stretch, Even if they don't have to because if you don't 5 miles down the road they will.  You will get there when you get there. Disable the clock function in your brain.

 

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Who doesn't dream of the Big DP and Stacker Setup?

Reality is Truck 5th Wheel combo is MOST ideal for the majority in how we use them and the budget to maintain, etc.

Like @MWB said...Keep it simple, make a few stops and save LOTS of $$$

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BTW a DP doesn't tow that great - ESPECIALLY with a stacker with real tongue weight...…… And they are a ton of fun when you get on to the sand.  I get the shakes and cold sweats whenever we camp on the sand in Oregon.  I would not consider Pismo.  Someone on here had a Class C built on a new Dodge 5500 chassis with 4wd and super singles.  That looked like a nice setup.

FWIW - with payment, storage, insurance,  registration, etc. my DP costs around $2300/month ($27,500/yr).  I use it around 8 days per year so I figure my nightly camping cost is around $3500/night (without fuel).  Wife always asks why I drink so much when we go camping...….

Edited by 1newbie
update

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The gas motorhomes are fine as long as you don't crazy with the length and don't expect it to tow a 10K enclosed trailer loaded with toys.  I have a 2014 32' motorhome.   I went from a toyhauler to a motorhome about 4 years ago.  I ran out of room in the toyhauler and was tired of the bathroom stops.  I do not see going back to a toyhauler.

The key with the V10 motorhome is you can't be scared to spin that motor.  It will go all day long at 4,000-5,000rpm.  Sure it is loud, the motor is screaming and it is sucking down gas like no tomorrow, but it will make it up the grades.

In 2015/2016 I believe is when they went to a 6 speed transmission which helps.

I find traveling in the motorhome a lot less stressful with the family. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, 1newbie said:

BTW a DP doesn't tow that great - ESPECIALLY with a stacker with real tongue weight...…… And they are a ton of fun when you get on to the sand.  I get the shakes and cold sweats whenever we camp on the sand in Oregon.  I would not consider Pismo.  Someone on here had a Class C built on a new Dodge 5500 chassis with 4wd and super singles.  That looked like a nice setup.

FWIW - with payment, storage, insurance,  registration, etc. my DP costs around $2300/month ($27,500/yr).  I use it around 8 days per year so I figure my nightly camping cost is around $3500/night (without fuel).  Wife always asks why I drink so much when we go camping...….

My DB towed absolutely outstanding.  It was 1-finger on the wheel in any wind, passing any rig, with our without the stacker.  But it weighed over 40k lbs (just the RV... was almost 53k w/ stacker) and had 8 giant 315 section-width tires, plus it had Comfort Drive which is friggin' awesome, but only Newmar has.  The tag-axle is key if you go DP, IMHO.  That said, 450/1250 HP/TQ meant the hardest parts of 80 dropped it down to about 37 (top of 3rd gear) but "most" grades it'd still do 50.  Also I got it stuck (with the stacker still on it, cuz I'm an idiot) once at Sand Mountain.  That was special. 

 

I love those Super Cs on the RAM 5500 factory 4x4 platform, and love them even more when converted to big arse super-singles.  but the ONLY floorplan they have that leaves ANY carrying capacity left in the GVWR is the 30FW.  It's a really cool floorplan if you don't mind having no private bedroom and a small-ish bed.  I still kinda wish I'd gone that way... but compared to a Genesis 40 CRXL like the OP has it's tiny inside. 

 

-TJ

 

Edited by tjZ06

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I found giving the :nag: a xanex before hitting the road keeps bathroom breaks to a minimum...

 

Good luck on your choice!

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1 hour ago, tjZ06 said:

My DB towed absolutely outstanding.  It was 1-finger on the wheel in any wind, passing any rig, with our without the stacker.  But it weighed over 40k lbs (just the RV... was almost 53k w/ stacker) and had 8 giant 315 section-width tires, plus it had Comfort Drive which is friggin' awesome, but only Newmar has.  The tag-axle is key if you go DP, IMHO.  That said, 450/1250 HP/TQ meant the hardest parts of 80 dropped it down to about 37 (top of 3rd gear) but "most" grades it'd still do 50.  Also I got it stuck (with the stacker still on it, cuz I'm an idiot) once at Sand Mountain.  That was special. 

 

I love those Super Cs on the RAM 5500 factory 4x4 platform, and love them even more when converted to big arse super-singles.  but the ONLY floorplan they have that leaves ANY carrying capacity left in the GVWR is the 30FW.  It's a really cool floorplan if you don't mind having no private bedroom and a small-ish bed.  I still kinda wish I'd gone that way... but compared to a Genesis 40 CRXL like the OP has it's tiny inside. 

 

-TJ

 

Someone needs to step up with a 3 axle Renegade Class 8 and convert to 6x6 on super singles.....  :)

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6 hours ago, tjZ06 said:

I hear that.  I had a paid-off DP and stacker and it still felt like it was expensive AF - and we even used ours a lot.  The costs + stress over camping in dirt, mud and sand with low-hanging trees with that kinda $ into a rig was enough for us to go back to a 5'er.  Well, that and the fact that (with the trailer) it didn't fit in most of the parts that are an hour or two away from our house, and our focus shifted a bit away from Glamis. 

 

 

You remember my gas Class A, right? 

oregontrip_zpslue55prl.jpg

That's how we rolled to the Oregon dunes.  20' flat bed trailer, '16 XPT and '15 XP 1000 (obviously both 2 seaters as you can see).  I never weighed that trailer, but for a flatbed it was a little on the heavy side (with the sort of double-level frame).  The rig was a '09 (so the later 3-valve V10) and it had the full Banks Power Pack (intake, headers, full exhaust, tune, etc. which makes a BIG difference).  It got the job done, but honestly it kind of sucked and I couldn't even imagine it without the Banks stuff.  I actually really liked the layout and size of that gasser (34' with slides only on the driver's side and a King Bed) so once it was at camp we loved it.  But with that trailer and 2 RZRs it struggled on the rolling hills of 5 up in Norcal and on into Oregon.  It was a constant cycle of picking up speed on the downhill (maybe a bit more than I was comfortable with) then heading into the hill pinned, downshift or two (and it had the "good" Torqshift trans) and screaming 5k RPM up the hill sometimes at like 35.  It was loud, it was stressful, and it also blew all over the road.  It was actually much better for stability with the trailer on it, but without a trailer it was a handful.  I think the bigger Class A Gassers are just too light for as much cross-sectional area as they have.  It's nearly as big of a sail as our DP, but weighed literally half as much (or less) with way narrower tires, and less of them (IIRC the gasser has 245 width tires, the DP had 315s all around and the DP had 8 with the tag axle vs. 6 on the gasser).  

In hindsight there's a part of me that thinks I should have just kept that gasser and the 28' box trailer we had at the time and had Melissa just tow the box trailer with my truck.  But then again, I HATED driving that thing.  You're used to your truck and 5'er, you're going to hate a gasser.  I was so used to how my truck towed (stable, no sway, great braking, and plenty of power to do 60+ up everything) that when I got in the gasser it was a bad experience.  It got knocked all over the road by wind or trucks, the power without a trailer was decent, but with a trailer it was pretty "meh" and the juice-brakes on a rig that big suck.  

IMHO if you're thinking of something OTHER than a diesel pusher you should ONLY look at diesel Super Cs.   I know you, you won't be happy w/ the gasser.  You're used to your truck that's stable, stops well, and pulls hard.  The gassers are loud an ride like a FedEx truck (cuz that's all the chassis is).  The DPs are way, way, way quieter and smoother.  But that wasn't even the big deal.  The big deal was just being a two-hand, white-knuckle drive at all times vs. the DP I could one-hand (really one-finger) in any weather, passing Semis, stacker or no trailer, just always solid. 

 

 

 

Now, all of that said, the gasser game is about to change a bit.  Ford just announced a 7.3 liter push-rod V8 that will become the standard F53 motor I'm pretty sure.  It should have a lot more power and torque than the SOHC 6.8L V10 and I think they're going to use the 10 speed trans on it.  That could change things a little... but I still think the juice brakes and stability won't make you very happy. 

 

-TJ

Pretty much nailed it here.  I went from a 40" 5th wheel towing with a Duallie to  36' Gasser and a 24 ' enclosed, my gasser is older with the workhorse and chevy 8.1 (which I don't think they make anymore).  It climbs Whitewater at 55mph fully loaded (Gen 4, 2 bikes, 50 gallons of water and 50 gallons of fuel in enclosed)

The power doesn't really bother me, but I only have 1-2 climbs to get to Glamis.  But the wind and semi's suck.  I get blown all over the road.  Both my wife and me miss the 5th wheel at times, it worked well with a family of 5, and never caused any issues.  I could scream on MTN roads as well, the Moho not so much on MTN roads.  We have three kids (now all grown up), we never stopped unless the drive was over 3 hours (trained them young).  

I switched for a couple of reasons, do more beach camping and river camping (tow the boat).  I also hated having an expensive truck sitting in the driveway not being used for weeks at a time (I had to have another car for commuting), the Moho doesn't bother me when it sits for a month, but the truck would just irk me.

Pushers and Gassers are not in the same class, you can't even compare.  I have driven the super C's, not a big fan, feels like driving a van to me, and just as loud as the Class A gassers IMHO.

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Love our Class C E-450.  Drag a 26' flatbed behind it with a light beam buggy and an X3 (and sometimes 2 kids' quads).  Tows decently, but since there aren't any 26' to the first cabinet toy haulers out there, better than anything you can haul behind a pickup other than a race hauler.

V10 will like to rev.  A lot.  It will sound even worse than the tach says since there are 10 cylinders flinging around in there.  If you're fine with the noise, it has adequate power.

Diesel is nice, but I like that I can get parts at just about any auto parts store and can reasonably fix it myself.  

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Also: from what I hear, the 5 star tune for the V10 is very much worth it.

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I have a 39' DP (350 CAT) and pull a 24' enclosed that weighs around 9k loaded.  The MH pulls it fine...I get down to about 40-45 on two parts of the I-8 grade to San Diego for about 1 min, then back up to 50-55 the rest of the way.  I don't tow fast anymore.  The party starts when I hit "D" on the panel.  The wife and passengers are having cocktails and my son is watching movies or playing video games on the tablet.  Gotta pee....no problem.  I might thrown in a quick left/right/left for fun but we never have to stop.  I don't feel like im in a hurry to get anywhere like I did when I had the truck and trailer.  It was always 80mph everywhere because I hated the drive.  The enclosed is like a second garage for me too.  I keep the buggy in it most of the time at the house and I can make daytrips with the truck and enclosed a lot easier that I could with a TH.  I like the MH better for local camping at beaches, NHRA drags or RV resorts too.  Pull up, drop the air, auto jacks down, slides out, crack beer!  The MH is just nicer inside too.  My .02.   

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I wouldn’t give up my truck and 5er unless it was for a DP or diesel super c but I can’t justify having either of those two just for desert season. I think of my set up of being a 40’ diesel puller! I have 40’ of trailer and a truck with 440 hp and 860 ft lb of torque getting 11-12 mpg towing and never a white knuckle feeling in winds or passing semis. With having 4wd I can camp pretty much anywhere I want and every season there’s a handful of times a friend with a moho ask to borrow my truck to run into town for something. I’m ok with a toy hauler sitting but not another power unit to maintain no matter what like a moho. I plan on maybe for retirement having a DP and do more traveling with it but that’s at least 15 years from now. We do river trips maybe twice in the summer but we rent a friends house so we just drive the truck out and use it to launch the toys. Another thing for me is storing two units vs just one. They both have their perks it just depends on which ones you want to deal with!

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Best Set up IN MY HUMBLE OPINION

Gigantic 5th wheel (Older one / fully remodeled and pimped out for 15 - 20K  Rhino line roof and leave it at the dunes) Plus a cargo trailer if you have a buggy OR a nice flatbed

Get the Motorhome For everything else kept at home always ready to go. The last thing you want like TJ said is dragging and abusing the moho thru pismo / sand / mud / high wind of blasting sand...etc

If you could, Id keep your current 5th wheel and save for a nice used pusher

My 2 cents...…..sounds not as simple, but when you look at trying to make one work for everything, why not have an older 5th wheel with a little make over action to make it pimpin and let it die in the desert instead of batteling and worrying about a georgoues pusher being destroyed.

My goal is to have a 45 foot Warrior and a disel 5500 truck for towing 4X4  leave it at dunes edge and live in North Carolina. ...There Ill have a moho on the property for everything else in life...…...Dune Time...fly to San Diego for the winter and buy everything I can OUTSIDE California. No $$ for Gavin Newsome!

:poule:

Edited by POULE43

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Switched to 36’ DP & 24’ TPD enclosed last season. I’ll never go back.  I can go camping with just the Moho,  some Glamis trips the wife doesn’t go, so I haul my trailer with my f350 and stay in my friends Moho. I love having a garage with me. I love not smelling fuel in the TH, AND........ if there is a fuel spill, it’s in the trailer and doesn’t RUIN  (Total) the TH. Also, seams to be a difference in build quality when comparing the two. 

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So my thought is how about a super c like the seneca and 24 ft enclosed. How would that be for towing and functionality. I was thinking of this https://rvs.autotrader.com/rvs/2007/jayco/seneca/300183152 or similiar.

 

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1 hour ago, urclever said:

So my thought is how about a super c like the seneca and 24 ft enclosed. How would that be for towing and functionality. I was thinking of this https://rvs.autotrader.com/rvs/2007/jayco/seneca/300183152 or similiar.

 

We had a Duramax and 5th wheel combo for 10 years. Kids got older and I had to stand up 3 quads up and  fit a 4 seat RZR  amongst other camping gear. It got old real quick. We sold that combo and found a gently used 06 Seneca 36ft and bought a 26ft universal box trailer. With water/fuel tanks.It was a dream to load all the toys and equipment with the room.

   Driving that thing down the road brought me back to the days of towing a heavy bumper pull trailer with my half ton. It was not fun . For us to better the ride we were going to need to dump a good chunk of change in the suspension which works for some. We never drove a air ride diesel pusher but that was out of our league so we sold the Seneca and will be going back to the 5th wheel. I will miss the box trailer when it’s gone for sure . The Seneca not so much. Some steep grades was 35 mph. I can’t fully blame the Seneca since it was probably to big of a trailer to put behind it. Trips to the local camp grounds was nice though.

Good luck with what ever direction you go.

09BC5BF5-EAF4-4C64-8C34-3516E1D00A72.jpeg.a23559ded3fa00b3ea6b5565c4069c51.jpeg

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If you want to Super C call me tomorrow.  My buddy is selling their 35' 2006 Endura, 17k miles (YES only 17k!) Duramax, Allison, two slides.  It looks brand new on the inside.

 

20190801_122133.jpg

 

20190801_122106.jpg

 

 

20190801_122347.jpg

 

 

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