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New Speed SXS by Robby Gordon

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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 8:43 AM, tjZ06 said:

 

Z1_5.thumb.jpg.df0a4fb58d90e8a1635d022bf2706b22.jpg

Was a looker too (bonus points if you know where those pics were taken...). 

 

Cal City

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On 12/1/2019 at 5:27 PM, xtream1 said:

Cal City

Negative.

-TJ 

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On 9/29/2019 at 7:41 PM, sandkist said:

Looks like the East Mesa.

 

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On 12/1/2019 at 5:27 PM, xtream1 said:

Cal City

That is west of gecko rd, not far from the old landing strip.

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5 minutes ago, jaysbay777 said:

That is west of gecko rd, not far from the old landing strip.

In that case, put some palm fronds on it and call it the new tiki hut.

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13 minutes ago, Kat-A-Tonic said:

In that case, put some palm fronds on it and call it the new tiki hut.

You need dirt tires to make it out there, your paddles will get torn up

 

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4 hours ago, jaysbay777 said:

That is west of gecko rd, not far from the old landing strip.

BOOM!  

 

You win... a beer, you just have to get it, from your own fridge.  

 

-TJ
 

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These look very promising.

 

But as some have slightly eluded to, they will be in the 40 grand and up range once you have added a few options and tax, lic. title, etc.

Not that 40 grand is a problem to anyone on this web site, merely pointing out the painfully obvious. 

And I agree with many previous posts, it will force the manf's to raise the bar in several areas if they desire to be crowned king of the sxs world.  lol

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Robby will build these. No doubt about it. But I also know there will be teething issues with the first release. He knows it and that’s why they are selling the first 500 units as cheap as they are. You are signing up to be the R&D dept. 

One of my bigger concerns and why have not put my money down is there is no dealer support, no parts supply chain in development. So when a part breaks, you will have to go back to Robby, and hope they can order one from the factory in China as they will not have parts stock. Then you might wait months as the factory might have two production lines going. One for vehicle assembly, which is first priority., And one for replacement parts stock.  This is the same issues Tesla is dealing with. They are not making replacement parts, as they can’t afford the inventory and do not want to pull from the production line. So when you need a part, it’s ordered and added to the production line parts list. So that’s why it takes 13 weeks to get Tesla parts for a simple bumper or fender bender. 

Plus Robby has already bullied the aftermarket world with his patents on the XX.  So I highly doubt he is going to support the aftermarket industry with the SpeedSXS. This also means lack of aftermarket replacement parts like a cv, cv boot, gaskets, bearings etc.. 

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15 minutes ago, NIKAL said:

Robby will build these. No doubt about it. But I also know there will be teething issues with the first release. He knows it and that’s why they are selling the first 500 units as cheap as they are. You are signing up to be the R&D dept. 

One of my bigger concerns and why have not put my money down is there is no dealer support, no parts supply chain in development. So when a part breaks, you will have to go back to Robby, and hope they can order one from the factory in China as they will not have parts stock. Then you might wait months as the factory might have two production lines going. One for vehicle assembly, which is first priority., And one for replacement parts stock.  This is the same issues Tesla is dealing with. They are not making replacement parts, as they can’t afford the inventory and do not want to pull from the production line. So when you need a part, it’s ordered and added to the production line parts list. So that’s why it takes 13 weeks to get Tesla parts for a simple bumper or fender bender. 

Plus Robby has already bullied the aftermarket world with his patents on the XX.  So I highly doubt he is going to support the aftermarket industry with the SpeedSXS. This also means lack of aftermarket replacement parts like a cv, cv boot, gaskets, bearings etc.. 

Aside from Suspension,  Engine,  and some probably other hopped up parts, these are off the shelf Widlcat parts.

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6 minutes ago, Al Lee said:

Aside from Suspension,  Engine,  and some probably other hopped up parts, these are off the shelf Widlcat parts.

Robby made it clear his relationship with Arctic Cat is over. Part of his settlement was being able to take his patents, & designs and build his own 72/77 inch, turbo powered in 2 & 4 seat configuration. I would not expect any parts to come from the Arctic Cat manufacture. Robby’s car will have its own chassis, engine, gearbox, clutching, front dif, etc.. even the body will look a bit different. Todd told me the hood area will be wider to fit the 72/77 width, larger grill opening for more cooling. 
 

If Robby decides to outsource to 3rd party vendors like Team Ind for drivetrain, clutching then you will have better support outside SpeedUTV .. When Robby made his announcement,  He was confident at the time he would build his own Z1 engine. His own drivetrain etc.. SpeedUTV was even trying to hire a Powertrain engineer from another manufacture. He even said he was not sure if they would source King for the shocks or build their own. He’s built his own race shocks for years, so that’s not a stretch, but sure could be a parts problem for the consumer or for shock tuners. 

It all goes back to how much does Robby choose to build in-house with his contracted manufacturing facility, or outsource to reputable UTV part suppliers. If you look at the Arctic Cat XX, on paper it looks great as Arctic Cat designed and produced a rolling chassis, and outsourced the engine to Yamaha & drivetrain to Team Ind. Both proven companies . This would be the best thing Robby could do. Design the ultimate, chassis & suspension and let the other 3rd party vendors supply the engine & drivetrain. It would take allot off the shoulders of SpeedUTV and give more insurance to the consumer. 

Todd Romano did not even know if they built their own engine, if they could get it CARB compliant in the Oct 2020 timeframe they have. I’ve been told it can take years to get certified.  And then add the “Hell Cat” key and it’s almost for sure it would not be CARB certified. You would have to Red Sticker register. 

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Robby did a live Q&A today. Tons of new details about the Speed UTV. 
 

This is the real deal! 
 

You can re-watch the video on SpeedUTV 

The only thing you don’t see is the Instagram  questions coming in and some questions that employees and Speedsxs were answering via Instagram during the live show. But Robby answers allot and shows a ton of new details. 

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Very, very impressive presentation.  I cannot believe that they can build/sell that thing for $32k. Shocked that they went with a 2 cylinder, maybe it really is Z1 based....really toying with ordering one....

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Did not hear this from Robby or the Speed guys. So I don’t know there reason for a 2 cylinder in the Speed cars. 
 

But a guy who worked on Weber /Textron engines and is considered a guru on them. He told me that you can make more torque from the twin, then from a triple. Plus because the cylinder CC’s are larger, you can bring the power band down at a lower RPM vs with a triple. He said the Weber engine used in the Arctic Cat Havoc was a better engine vs the Yamaha used in the XX. 

Only Can Am & Yamaha /Arctic Cat XX have triples. The new Honda & Kawi went with a twin. Not sure about the Can Am, but the Yamaha engine, is super high rev’ing. 
 

Robby did say in his Q&A that they had hired engine engineers from the snow sled and from the NASCAR industry to help design the new Speed engine. He mentioned that NC has some of the best engine builders and engineers in the country.
 

If I was to guess, they took the Z1 and used that as a starting platform to build from. I would think they would change the engine block to accommodate top engine mounts as Robby said the engine will hang similar to the XX. I’d bet they improve the cooling as the Z1 was built for a snow sled and this car will run in hot environments and have rear radiators. It will also have an 230 amp alternator. So it will need a way to drive it, and package it to fit where he wants it. 
 

 

 

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From day one they have been saying there will be a bore/stroke kit to take it to 1400cc.  I know a z1 can be made bigger, but idk if it can go that big without a redesign.

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another presentation on wednesday is coming but that's april fools day so.....

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On 3/28/2020 at 8:53 PM, NIKAL said:

Did not hear this from Robby or the Speed guys. So I don’t know there reason for a 2 cylinder in the Speed cars. 
 

But a guy who worked on Weber /Textron engines and is considered a guru on them. He told me that you can make more torque from the twin, then from a triple. Plus because the cylinder CC’s are larger, you can bring the power band down at a lower RPM vs with a triple. He said the Weber engine used in the Arctic Cat Havoc was a better engine vs the Yamaha used in the XX. 

Only Can Am & Yamaha /Arctic Cat XX have triples. The new Honda & Kawi went with a twin. Not sure about the Can Am, but the Yamaha engine, is super high rev’ing. 
 

Robby did say in his Q&A that they had hired engine engineers from the snow sled and from the NASCAR industry to help design the new Speed engine. He mentioned that NC has some of the best engine builders and engineers in the country.
 

If I was to guess, they took the Z1 and used that as a starting platform to build from. I would think they would change the engine block to accommodate top engine mounts as Robby said the engine will hang similar to the XX. I’d bet they improve the cooling as the Z1 was built for a snow sled and this car will run in hot environments and have rear radiators. It will also have an 230 amp alternator. So it will need a way to drive it, and package it to fit where he wants it. 
 

 

 

Can Am is not high revving motor.  8000-8300 is max RPM and power is made in the 7700-8000 range.  The Yamaha is high revving because of the gears.   The similar motor in the Wildcat XX with a CVT does not required 10,000rpm to make power.  It is in that 7500-8000 range. 

I will tell that a twin cylinder motor with boost likes to drink a lot more fuel than the Can Am triple.   My fuel mileage is far better than my friends that have the Turbo S.  

Robby posted drawing/renderings of the motor on his Instrgram page.   I like the alternator set sup.

Al the design on this Speed SXS is well thought out and way a head of what is currently available.  He can do that when you are producing far less than Polaris, Can Am , Honda, Yamaha, and Kawi.

Going to be interesting to see how many he actually produces once they get the motor CARB certified.  Also will be curious to see who parts availability will be with this platform as there is a very limited dealer network. 

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How about the complexity of his 'unicorn' front end.  Looks super complicated but he did say that Albins was involved in the R&D

 

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Posted (edited)

yeah they have been working with albins to develop the trans (3-speed) and diffs (manual locked selection)

The front end is not complicated, similar design that everyone uses even some sand cars.

Edited by DuneTrack-N

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43 minutes ago, DuneTrack-N said:

yeah they have been working with albins to develop the trans (3-speed) and diffs (manual locked selection)

The front end is not complicated, similar design that everyone uses even some sand cars.

The cad drawing made it look like a bolt in front bulkhead made out of cast aluminum that all the tubes bolt on to.  Inside the unicorn is the front diff and electric over hydraulic steering rack.  He says it is similiar to what he uses in his TT.

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Well, I dun-did-it, put my deposit on the 110" Wheelbase "UTT." 

Truth be told there's a certain blue, LSA-powered G52 Funco that I really, really, really wanted to buy - but it just doesn't make sense for us right now with maybe 1-3 G trips a year and being 12 hrs from G.  "Someday" I hope to get back to 90+ days in G and then I'll have something like that, but now is not the time.  So, we decided it made sense to get a 2nd SxS again.  We both like driving and are both horrible passengers, and we like being able to ride 'safely' with a backup machine without counting on anybody else.  So I started looking into the deals on X3 RCs and Turbo Ss again.  There are definitely some good deals out there, but I decided to look into the SPEED again.  I watched about 6 hours of Robby's technical breakdown videos on it before I pulled the trigger. 

I could spend all day quoting out of this thread and giving my opinions, but in the end it might be easier to just post some of the data and my thoughts on it (just my thoughts... take it for what it's worth - or not):

  • Full tube frame with upper and lower "spines" and everything triangulated (Robby likes to point out the "A" s everywhere) but bottom line is no dead-tubes and nothing in the frame is bolted together.  The drawings Robby provides are colored to represent different tube sizes and/or wall-thicknesses.  I'm not a structural engineer... but it tells me that actual structural engineers are really thinking it through and using the right tubes in the right places.  This includes 2nd A-pillar bars (or "FIA bars") and actual structure above and beyond the "intrusion" bars (he talks about why they're so much more than intrusion bars, but even with the aftermarket cages like we have that add a V in a RZR or X3, it doesn't tie down into anything below the dash).  The only things keeping it from being race legal in most sanctioning bodies are the door openings and lack of window nets.  There will be a RG Edition later this year that has window nets stock, and SPEED will offer pre-cut and pre-notched tubes to weld-in across the door openings (at the top, as well as to either make a single diagonal door-bar or an "X") to "finish" the fully legal frame.  Obviously 99% of the SxS market wants functioning doors, so the frame was built to be fully structurally sound without them, but he will offer them for racers 
  • True double-shear for all suspension steering using bolts exactly shouldered to the right length (threads never in the shear section), NO ball joints or single shear anywhere, no cheesy plastic "bulkhead" making up the 2nd side of the double shear (sorry X3 folks... but it's true)
  • Big aluminum front bulkhead that is the suspension and steering mounting points as well as the front diff with torque-limiter etc.  This design is straight from his Unicorn trophy truck, and was co-designed with Albins (they seem to know a few things).  I see this as a big plus from an engineering perspective, BUT it's a HUGE departure for the SxS industry and one of the few areas that I'm a little worried to see how it works out on the first run (which will include mine) 
  • Proper suspension geometry in the front end to virtually eliminate bump steer: Robby is claiming less than .5 degree through the whole 25" of front suspension cycle... compare that to 4" of bump steer in a X3 (I'm not sure what that translates to in degrees... I've heard it said it's over 10 degrees).  I've posted on this before, but just a quick recap... bump steer is NOT when you feel the steering wheel jerking around in your hand over bumps like it seems most people think.  That phenomena can be a product of bump steer.  However, bump steer is when the front tire angle changes as a result of suspension movement.  Say you took the front shocks off a X3 and just cycle the front suspension up and down... the front tires turn as much as 4".  THAT is bump steer.  You can probably imagine why it's bad... but in short it means as each tire hits different bumps and does different things you have your tires constantly changing where they're steering the car - and NOT in unison.  
  • Speaking of suspension and steering, forged aluminum front spindles
  • Billet aluminum hubs that are the same on all 4 corners, and the bearing "carrier" bolts in (with the bearing being pressed into it).  So, out on the trail or at camp you don't need to press a bearing in/out of a spindle/upright to replace it.  You just carry one already pressed into the carrier part and it's the same for all 4 corners
  • Speaking of things being the same, the upper and lower control arms are the same side to side in the front (obviously different top to bottom).  All 4 shock bodies and shafts are the same (obviously different spring rates and valving front to back).  As mentioned the hubs are the same on all 4 corners.  Many other parts are made to be the same to make costs lower for keeping spares (think race teams here) 
  • And about those shocks, 3.25" body internal bypass shocks with internal hydraulic bump stops and aluminum bodies and finned aluminum reservoirs.  They have real dual-rate springs with adjustable cross-over ring etc. just like any real race shock vs. "helper springs" that have to go to coil-bind to get into the big spring in most of the competition 
  • 25" of "usable" travel - it remains to be seen exactly how Robby is defining this, I would certainly HOPE he's using wheel travel without bottoming not the Polaris measurement but he hasn't gone too deep on that 
  • Oh, and through that travel the width of the machine (77" at the tire-bulges) does not change, other than a tiny bit at the very extremes 
  • As a benefit of ^this when you "pack" into a corner, the machine doesn't become narrower and taller, like both X3 and RZR do, leading to some of the stability issues people point out in SxSs, whether just perceived or real 
  • It IS A CVT.  Robby talked about this at length, but like I've spoken about before it's the "right" trans for a SxS.  You have a relatively heavy vehicle (I'll cover weight in a bit...) with a relatively small (999cc) motor.  Yes, the terrrrrrba makes it a wide powerband and torquey, but the CVT is still the optimal way to get power to the tires in a SxS... he compares it to the torque converter in a TT.  If you're not familiar, they run very loose torque converters (hence the Yuge trans coolers you see in them) to allow the engine to stay on the powerband even at lower speeds (listen to a TT... in many ways they almost sound like CVTs with a flat-ish RPM even as the truck accelerates, at least until it gets up to stall speed then gains RPM)
  • Like a RZR or X3 or XX or whatever yes it's a CVT, but they also have a transmission to provide low and high, as well as things like park and reverse.  However, in the SPEED you get low, high and Cruise (which is basically a high-high) so if you're doing a long day on fireroads, or even real roads in free States or in Mexico you don't have to turn 7-8k RPM all day... Robby is also reporting it will be shift on the fly.  I know with the 5 RZRs I've owned, I've always been annoyed that I have to stop and drop it in low for technical stuff, then when you start going over 30 MPH (or don't want to turn 8k+ RPM to just go 25 MPH) you have to stop and go back to high.  It sounds silly, but where we ride it's actually a pretty common issue 
  • Inside the trans on the final drive AND in the front diff there will be torque limiters.  These will keep torque-spikes from hurting parts (think coming down from a jump under throttle, or rock crawling and one tire all the sudden finds solid traction) 
  • The input shaft, gears, and bearings are roughly 2.5x the size of X3/RZR and they focused on quality bearings to avoid the problems with trans bearings you get with a RZR (and again, this was all designed with Albins)
  • CVs and axles are way bigger than the competition, and the CVs are grease-able 
  • The engine is an all-new design (not Z1-derived as people, including me, had been wondering about or speculating) and Robby involved engineers from his NASCAR, Indy, and Baja programs.  They've flipped the intake/exhaust sides of the motor so the turbo and exhaust are at the back of the vehicle, vs. being right behind the seats like it is in the RZR Turbos and X3.  It's a 2 cylinder, 4-valve per cylinder design (noting too new about that) that they found provides more power at a lower peak RPM than the same displacement in 3 cylinders.  The crank, rods and pistons are FORGED stock to be ready for big boost.  They've put extensive engineering into the cooling system, and even water-jacked around the spark plugs.  It will have 2 injectors per cylinder and a water to air intercooler 
  • Speaking of cooling, it has a large rear-mounted radiator with 3 large fans 
  • The fuel system is built to accommodate E85 from the get-go including a flex fuel sensor and an ECU that will modify boost/timing/injector pulse width based on the actual % of ethanol in the tank (in other words, you don't have to drain fuels when you switch and run either pure 91 or pure E85...  you can have any blend of E in it and it'll compensate) 
  • 15 gallon fuel tank and SPEED will offer a race-legal fuel cell that bolts directly in place of it 
  • 32" tires stock, body will clear 35" (there will be a template for the minimal front fender trimming required, rear no trimming) 
  • 225 HP stock on 91 (20psi boost) and 300 HP stock with "SPEED key" on E85 stock (30psi boost) 
  • All versions will have a "bed" with room for a 35" spare stock (the short 2-seater and 4-seater have a 35" long, 48" wide bed... the UTT has a 50" long, 48" wide bed)
  • All versions (not just the pre-order Limited Edition) will have 5-point harnesses stock - this is a recent change, but RG felt there is just no way he can send these out without proper safety 
  • 10" touch-screen, mounted to move with the square-profile steering wheel for optimal visibility.  Screen will be able to mirror your phone screen into a section of the screen while still having the necessary gauges and displays up to view your Nav apps (or whatever) 
  • Real alternator 
  • Real hydraulic power steering (he's had too much trouble with EPS in places like Dakar and Baja) 
  • Random note: for our extra-tall friends out there, the UTT will have the option to move the seat back further than the "regular" 2 seat or the 4 seat

I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff... but hey that's a pretty good start.  Then there are the extras on the pre-order limited editions:

  • Beadlock wheels 
  • Carbon Fiber SPEED race seats 
  • Full roof
  • Graphics kit each owner will get to customize (basic color changes, not full re-design AFAIK) 
  • $1 for SPEED key (vs. $2500 for the non-pre-order models) 

And the best part?  The price!!!!!!!!!!!!! The UTT is $30k.  The 4 seat is $32k.  No word on the "short" 2 seat yet, but I imagine it'd be the same, or maybe even less than the UTT.  Prices WILL go up after the pre-order, and the $30/32k price point will become the "base" car without the beadlocks, carbon seats etc.  Still, even that "base" unit at ~$30k will be a screaming deal.  Weight is projected to be 2100lbs (for the 4 seat).  That's right there with STOCK competition (a 4 seat RZR pro is 2044 DRY, so over 2100 fully ready to drive) and probably lighter than the competition by the time you put a real cage, real seats, upgraded arms, address the weaknesses (full bulkhead kits on X3) etc.  

I've bought and built a lot of SxSs.  The closest competition would be a 4 seat Turbo S or 4 seat RZR Pro Ultimate or the X3 Maxx RR models are all about $32k themselves.  But you'd then easily spend $20-30k to make it even close to what these things are.  

For me, I'll just be adding comms (the RG Edition that will be out in Dec will have comms, but will be $39k in the 4 seat and I ASSume $37k in the UTT) and a fresh air pumper and I'm done.  Well, that and a set of sand wheels/tires for G, which will be really interesting to see what ends up being the "right" setup.  I almost think something like a 33" blaster #1 might end up being the ticket. 

 

 

So, what about downsides?  

  • New unit from a new company with all new parts
  • Pre-order and wait 
  • They're kinda Yuge (can be an issue for lots of THs that were built around a 72" width SxS)
  • Did I mention new unit from a new company?  Make no mistake, us in the first batches will kind of be R&D

 

And some pics:

UTT: 

89317439_2853753168015544_6482208236488359936_o.jpg

 

Different model lengths (95" wheelbase 2 seat, 110" wheelbase UTT, 120" wheelbase 4 seat):

SPEED-UTV-DESIGN-PRESENTATION-3-04-08-20-REV-A_Page_26.jpg

 

Other stuff and things: 

SPEED-UTV-DESIGN-PRESENTATION-3-27-20_011.jpg

SPEED-UTV-DESIGN-PRESENTATION-3-27-20_009.jpg

SPEED-UTV-DESIGN-PRESENTATION-3-27-20_008.jpg

MASTER-SPEED-UTV-DESIGN-PRESENTATION_Page_23.jpg

 

SPEED-UTV-DESIGN-PRESENTATION-3-27-20_012.jpg

 

 

You can go to their site for way more info: https://speedutv.com/

 

Or, if you're like me and love the nitty-gritty they're doing a live-feed every Wednesday giving new info, answer questions, and keeping pre-order customers updated.  They then put that up on YThttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCmS3vZlF597phxlwOtjWig

 

-TJ

 

PS- I think Robby should give me a kick-back, I've "sold" 5 of these things for him just this week 😛 

 

 

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I'm doing the standard 2 seat because of the amount of space I have in my trailer. I have 2 wildcats now with his long travel on them and they work great. Cant wait to see how the new one does. I'm number 17.

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1 minute ago, cek said:

I'm doing the standard 2 seat because of the amount of space I have in my trailer. I have 2 wildcats now with his long travel on them and they work great. Cant wait to see how the new one does. I'm number 17.

So was the standard 2 seat pre-order earlier, and is already sold-out?  I only see the UTT and the 4 seat on their site, I wanted the UTT anyway... but was curious about that. 

 

-TJ

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Just now, tjZ06 said:

So was the standard 2 seat pre-order earlier, and is already sold-out?  I only see the UTT and the 4 seat on their site, I wanted the UTT anyway... but was curious about that. 

 

-TJ

Yes it was a pre order and I "assume" is full. when I did the pre-order I don't even remember seeing an option for the UTT.   And I just looked again, I'm number 15.👍

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I will say that these will be industry leading vehicles, they will definitely get Polaris and Can-Am working on improvements. But I am not convinced that they will be able to make the price point that Robby is trying to get to. There is a lot, and I mean A LOT of great engineering and well made parts for these, that costs money. 

I should probably put in my deposit for one if there is any guarantee of price when I take delivery. Otherwise, I see these more in the $40k - $50k range when all said and done.

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