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barneydds

another motor home question

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For anyone who understands this better than I do, I'm looking for a motorhome and have found anothre deal on a fleetwood 39'.  These for whatever reason have a tow capacity of 5,000 lbs.  Is this something that can be changed by changing or bolstering the hitch?  Anyone towing more than the 5k with one of these?

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What engine/trans combo?

That is probably the limiting factor. Or the axle and gvwr.

Can they be beefed up? Sure. Will it have enough engine and trans to pull it? That's another question.

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1 minute ago, The looney duner said:

What engine/trans combo?

That is probably the limiting factor. Or the axle and gvwr.

Can they be beefed up? Sure. Will it have enough engine and trans to pull it? That's another question.

Dont forget brakes!

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32 minutes ago, The looney duner said:

What engine/trans combo?

That is probably the limiting factor. Or the axle and gvwr.

Can they be beefed up? Sure. Will it have enough engine and trans to pull it? That's another question.

this one is the 330 hp cat/ allison 3000 6sp.  the gvwr seems to be the limiting factor.  gvwr is 27,910 and gcwr is 32,910

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1 hour ago, barneydds said:

this one is the 330 hp cat/ allison 3000 6sp.  the gvwr seems to be the limiting factor.  gvwr is 27,910 and gcwr is 32,910

That engine and trans is what's in my brother's rig. He tows 7-8k with it all the time. No problems.  It you can go look at you can crawl under and get a picture of the tag on the rear end,  see what it's rated at. If it's not one of the smaller ones, then it may be just a matter of beefing up the hitch. Plenty of guys have had to do it. Brakes should not be an issue if it's an air brake coach, the brakes will be spec. To the axle weight rating on the tag. My axles are tagged at 23,000 rear and 13,000 front. Also make sure someone didn't put cheap tires on it, check the weight rating on them as well. 

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If you intend to tow a sand car trailer to the dunes buy a coach with a GCWR of 40,000 or better. My coach has a GCWR of 42,400 and I don't even consider it very big. 

It is likely that coach has a smaller rear axle and/or frame. You can run 12.50s with combo spindles, until they break. You are better off safe than sorry. 

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My 2001 Holiday Rambler has a 10k GCWR.  I'm over that with my enclosed fully loaded.  And if/when I get into an accident my insurance won't cover me, I'll lose my home due to being sued for gross negligence and end up in DMV jail.

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What year is the coach? My 07 fleetwood discovery 39s with same motor and trans is rated for 10k .... even the smaller 35’ is rated the same. 

E005026A-79D7-4758-9795-181E3F9E298D.thumb.png.ac06455e4a95c31b92a9ead68ebe880c.png

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It’s a 2003.  I think they may have gone to 10k in 2004

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1 hour ago, barneydds said:

It’s a 2003.  I think they may have gone to 10k in 2004

is it built on the same freight-liner XC chassis?

 

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43 minutes ago, EMPIRE231 said:

is it built on the same freight-liner XC chassis?

 

I have scoured the internet and can't get much chassis information on a 2003 fleetwood providence 39s.  the only thing I found was the 2006 model and it does have the 10k tow rating. 

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The 2003 discovery 39s shows a rating of 5k, which is why I assume the providence is the same. 

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10 hours ago, fortyfour said:

If you intend to tow a sand car trailer to the dunes buy a coach with a GCWR of 40,000 or better. My coach has a GCWR of 42,400 and I don't even consider it very big. 

It is likely that coach has a smaller rear axle and/or frame. You can run 12.50s with combo spindles, until they break. You are better off safe than sorry. 

I hear you, but I will likely only use the coach one or two times a year and I can't justify big numbers for it just to sit and rot most of the year.  If I can get to a point where I'm using it more frequently, I will upgrade.  Just trying as of now to pick the best of the worst. 

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I owned a 04' discovery with the c7 and it towed 10k good as long as it wasnt a stacker. 10 in a stacker with the added wind load kicked its butt.

Originally these coaches come out with  a 5k towing capacity, that was later upped to 10k with  a weight distributing hitch.

 

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A big hitch and good brakes.

I tow 7000 with a motor home that is rated for 3500.

I do use a weight distribution hitch though I don't think I  need to.

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3 hours ago, Jscc said:

I owned a 04' discovery with the c7 and it towed 10k good as long as it wasnt a stacker. 10 in a stacker with the added wind load kicked its butt.

Originally these coaches come out with  a 5k towing capacity, that was later upped to 10k with  a weight distributing hitch.

 

A weight distribution hitch doubles the towing capacity of a diesel pusher? Interesting.

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2 hours ago, L.R.S. said:

A weight distribution hitch doubles the towing capacity of a diesel pusher? Interesting.

Lol... stretching what I said a little.... interesting.

 

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4 hours ago, L.R.S. said:

A weight distribution hitch doubles the towing capacity of a diesel pusher? Interesting.

Actually yes, a weight distributing hitch can double the towing capacity in some instances. This is the weight label from the hitch on my DP. 

1EE18F9E-70B1-40AA-A257-5C3FECD94F13.jpeg

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1 hour ago, fortyfour said:

Actually yes, a weight distributing hitch can double the towing capacity in some instances. This is the weight label from the hitch on my DP. 

1EE18F9E-70B1-40AA-A257-5C3FECD94F13.jpeg

I think this post and receiver labels or stickers are disingenuous.

The receiver does not determine how much you can tow, the sum of all your parts does.

There should be a sticker in the cab or in the door jamb with a dry weight of the RV as measured after the chassis was built and the house installed. Then it should state a max gvwr and a max combined gvwr.

Take your dry weight, add all your stuff, water, food, people etc. Then add your total trailer weight. 

If the sum is less than your combined gvwr then you are good to go. If it is more, well you are then overweight. 

This is basic math and logic. 

The receiver rating means nothing. You can install that receiver on a Prius if you like, doesnt make the Prius tow a 10k lbs with a weight distribution hitch. It simply means the receiver alone is rated for that weight.

My moho receiver is rated for 8000lbs. 24' class C. My weight rating allows me about 4000lbs. Big difference there.

Edited by DTA

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Disingenuous? No not at all.  Please note the words "in some instances"  that I included in my post, it has not been edited.  My post was not meant to pull the wool over anyone's eyes or offer advice that was not accurate. I was not trying to be a dick or smartass but rather simply offer some factual proof that a weight distributing hitch can double the towing capacity of a DP in some instances. I do however understand how you can interpret my post several ways. 

Yes you can put this hitch on a Prius and I agree it would not pull 10,000lbs. 

This is the hitch that Thor installed on my coach when they built it out from a chassis made by Freightliner, the GCWR (42,400)  label on the interior matches exactly the sum of the GVWR (32,400) and the maximum weight this hitch (10,000)  is rated for. According to the hitch the maximum weight of a trailer cannot exceed 5,000lbs unless it is used with a weight distributing hitch device, and then it cannot weigh more than 10,000lbs. If I'm not mistaken this label indicates your trailer weight can double when using a weight distributing device, and it also states at the very top of the label to not exceed the lower of the towing vehicle manufacturers rating OR the rating on the hitch for the particular setup you are using. In other words you must know the weight of your equipment and not exceed the GCWR of the tow vehicle. 

Yes this IS all basic math. Unfortunately not all RV owners even know what GVWR and GCWR mean, much less really know what the weight of their equipment is. 

The receiver hitch does indeed tell you how much you can tow, as long as you do not exceed the GCWR. 

As has been mentioned already in this thread, what the rear axle capacity is on an RV is a huge factor in determining the tow rating. I'll try to condense this down as much as possible here. There are 2 things that are affected when you hook up a trailer, first there is the tongue weight  which directly affects the weight on the rear axle, and in the case of an RV there isn't much give or take here some of them are near the limit with a few passengers and half a tank of fuel and water. The second factor with towing capacity involves the hitch itself and how much weight it can physically handle without material failure. If anyone had noticed on the picture of the hitch label I posted a weight distributing hitch cuts the tongue weight in half.  See the trend here?

Yes the transmission has a lot to do with towing capacity also, but that has already been factored into the GCWR of the tow vehicle. If you stay within the GCWR guidelines your transmission will be adequate. 

The OP said the DP he was asking about had a GVWR of 27,910 and a GCWR of 32,910, so regardless of the hitch that is installed,  this particular RV for whatever the reason is only rated to tow 5,000lbs. I did not even offer a recommendation to improve the towing capacity of this RV because the chassis was only rated to tow 5,000lbs. That is why I recommended an RV with a GCWR of 40,000 or better if the OP was planning on towing a sand car to the dunes. 

One thing that I do recommend is that every RV owner familiarize themselves with their rigs. I know just about every component on my DP down to what rear axle it has installed, which by the way is a Detroit 20,000lb unit with 3.74 ratio. A Meritor 22,000 would have been better but maybe on the next one. 

There will be those who will boast that they tow way over the weight limit for their rigs and that they had been doing it for years with no issues. That's great I'm happy for them . It doesn't matter to me what anyone else does with their stuff.  It's rare for me to even post things here anymore much less enter into a debate about something. I am very qualified to do so I just don't have the mental energy to go through with it most of the time when everything I post get's picked apart, while certain members can say that the Earth is flat and have the majority go along with it. 

Throw some sand on the fire when you go to bed I'm out. :soap: 

 

 

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10 hours ago, DTA said:

I think this post and receiver labels or stickers are disingenuous.

The receiver does not determine how much you can tow, the sum of all your parts does.

There should be a sticker in the cab or in the door jamb with a dry weight of the RV as measured after the chassis was built and the house installed. Then it should state a max gvwr and a max combined gvwr.

Take your dry weight, add all your stuff, water, food, people etc. Then add your total trailer weight. 

If the sum is less than your combined gvwr then you are good to go. If it is more, well you are then overweight. 

This is basic math and logic. 

The receiver rating means nothing. You can install that receiver on a Prius if you like, doesnt make the Prius tow a 10k lbs with a weight distribution hitch. It simply means the receiver alone is rated for that weight.

My moho receiver is rated for 8000lbs. 24' class C. My weight rating allows me about 4000lbs. Big difference there.

Yep, sum of all parts, but the sticker is still valid.  Going the other way, you could hook that hitch to a Peterbilt, but that doesn't mean you can throw whatever you want on it.  The makers of that hitch apparently felt that anything above 5000lbs hooked to it needed a WD hitch, probably because a 10,000lb trailer is going to double the tongue weight and the tensile strength of the bolts holding it in place won't live with that.  Heed their advice at your own peril.

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Hey OP, 

There should be a 3 ring binder somewhere in that Coach with all the parts listed that were installed during the assembly along with a 8-1/2" x 11" sticker generated by the MFG. in the rear closet that would provide you with enough information regarding weights, engine & trans.

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7 hours ago, fortyfour said:

Disingenuous? No not at all.  Please note the words "in some instances"  that I included in my post, it has not been edited.  My post was not meant to pull the wool over anyone's eyes or offer advice that was not accurate. I was not trying to be a dick or smartass but rather simply offer some factual proof that a weight distributing hitch can double the towing capacity of a DP in some instances. I do however understand how you can interpret my post several ways. 

Yes you can put this hitch on a Prius and I agree it would not pull 10,000lbs. 

This is the hitch that Thor installed on my coach when they built it out from a chassis made by Freightliner, the GCWR (42,400)  label on the interior matches exactly the sum of the GVWR (32,400) and the maximum weight this hitch (10,000)  is rated for. According to the hitch the maximum weight of a trailer cannot exceed 5,000lbs unless it is used with a weight distributing hitch device, and then it cannot weigh more than 10,000lbs. If I'm not mistaken this label indicates your trailer weight can double when using a weight distributing device, and it also states at the very top of the label to not exceed the lower of the towing vehicle manufacturers rating OR the rating on the hitch for the particular setup you are using. In other words you must know the weight of your equipment and not exceed the GCWR of the tow vehicle. 

Yes this IS all basic math. Unfortunately not all RV owners even know what GVWR and GCWR mean, much less really know what the weight of their equipment is. 

The receiver hitch does indeed tell you how much you can tow, as long as you do not exceed the GCWR. 

As has been mentioned already in this thread, what the rear axle capacity is on an RV is a huge factor in determining the tow rating. I'll try to condense this down as much as possible here. There are 2 things that are affected when you hook up a trailer, first there is the tongue weight  which directly affects the weight on the rear axle, and in the case of an RV there isn't much give or take here some of them are near the limit with a few passengers and half a tank of fuel and water. The second factor with towing capacity involves the hitch itself and how much weight it can physically handle without material failure. If anyone had noticed on the picture of the hitch label I posted a weight distributing hitch cuts the tongue weight in half.  See the trend here?

Yes the transmission has a lot to do with towing capacity also, but that has already been factored into the GCWR of the tow vehicle. If you stay within the GCWR guidelines your transmission will be adequate. 

The OP said the DP he was asking about had a GVWR of 27,910 and a GCWR of 32,910, so regardless of the hitch that is installed,  this particular RV for whatever the reason is only rated to tow 5,000lbs. I did not even offer a recommendation to improve the towing capacity of this RV because the chassis was only rated to tow 5,000lbs. That is why I recommended an RV with a GCWR of 40,000 or better if the OP was planning on towing a sand car to the dunes. 

One thing that I do recommend is that every RV owner familiarize themselves with their rigs. I know just about every component on my DP down to what rear axle it has installed, which by the way is a Detroit 20,000lb unit with 3.74 ratio. A Meritor 22,000 would have been better but maybe on the next one. 

There will be those who will boast that they tow way over the weight limit for their rigs and that they had been doing it for years with no issues. That's great I'm happy for them . It doesn't matter to me what anyone else does with their stuff.  It's rare for me to even post things here anymore much less enter into a debate about something. I am very qualified to do so I just don't have the mental energy to go through with it most of the time when everything I post get's picked apart, while certain members can say that the Earth is flat and have the majority go along with it. 

Throw some sand on the fire when you go to bed I'm out. :soap: 

 

 

Fair enough. 

I only posted since most cannot grasp the concept of vehicle capabilities. I know very smart people who strictly go by the sticker on their hitch, whether it's on their truck or moho.

On a DP, or most DPs, there is most likely plenty of buffer there and everything lines up. However on smaller RVs as you most likely know there are tiny buffers for towing. 

This happens everyday on every RV dealership in the country. Walk into one, ask a salesman how much a certain RV can tow and they are going to walk over to the receiver sticker and tell you whatever is listed there.

I have done my fair share of towing overweight so I am not innocent here, dumb, yes. Safe as I could be, yes. 

Nowadays with a little 24' v10 on a 350 chassis, I have to be more careful compared to my 3500 drw. 

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