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Stugots

The 3.5 saga continues

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So I ended up  pulling the engine and dropping the pan to find metal in the oil...

Now I can simply find another  used engine and drop it in  and hope it is a good one but, this one  has me looking into rebuilding it... If the cylinder walls are good and the crank journals are not damaged it does not seem all to difficult to throw in new pistons, rings, bearings, oil pump and seals to at least have a rebuilt bottom end. If the damage is head related then swap out for some rebuilt ones.  I would be about a grand to do all that and would have a solid engine. I hate to buy another engine only to have a issue with it..

20191201_102219.jpg

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And now you know the rest of the story. 

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23 minutes ago, ROBERT L said:

And now you know the rest of the story. 

Not yet haha.

Ran strong , no smoke, no knocking but had a top end tap. Ether way I go with this I will still tear into it to find out..

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Dissemble engine.... cylinder walls are perfect no rubing still some viable crosshatch..

Heads and cans look good...

Main bearings look a little worn and is most likely the problem 

20191201_123953.jpg

20191201_123941.jpg

20191201_124005.jpg

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Buddy just had almost this exact problem manifest at the end of the ride: limp mode and low oil pressure. His ended up being oil consumption was crazy high and at 3-4 quarts in 2 days duning.  Result was a top end knock like you’re hearing. Swapping everything over to a JDM motor right now. 

His reasoning: Oil pressure starvation is most unkind to internals. Honda builds engines very well (the fact this motor didn’t die but still ran fine is testament) and a lot of parts get damaged.  Might be  money ahead getting another and forgetting about it. 

Edited by Rockwood

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1 hour ago, Rockwood said:

Buddy just had almost this exact problem manifest at the end of the ride: limp mode and low oil pressure. His ended up being oil consumption was crazy high and at 3-4 quarts in 2 days duning.  Result was a top end knock like you’re hearing. Swapping everything over to a JDM motor right now. 

His reasoning: Oil pressure starvation is most unkind to internals. Honda builds engines very well (the fact this motor didn’t die but still ran fine is testament) and a lot of parts get damaged.  Might be  money ahead getting another and forgetting about it. 

Ryan?

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2 hours ago, Rockwood said:

Buddy just had almost this exact problem manifest at the end of the ride: limp mode and low oil pressure. His ended up being oil consumption was crazy high and at 3-4 quarts in 2 days duning.  Result was a top end knock like you’re hearing. Swapping everything over to a JDM motor right now. 

His reasoning: Oil pressure starvation is most unkind to internals. Honda builds engines very well (the fact this motor didn’t die but still ran fine is testament) and a lot of parts get damaged.  Might be  money ahead getting another and forgetting about it. 

Well that's the thing .. I have taken this engine apart and does not look bad besides the bearings for for $400 get a complete rebuild kit  find a good crank for a couple hundred and I have a rebuilt bottom end. Yes I could find another engine but the only A4 I am seeing are high mileage  ones on ebay and will still run me close to that with shipping.

JDM has plenty of 35A engines but have not had any A4's for a while.

As simple as these engines are to work on if the block and heads are  good I don't understand the whole disposable thing. I am leaning towards a rebuild.

Hone the cylinders,

Pistons rings

bearings

Oil pump

all seals and gaskets

Slap the heads on and see what she does.

With all the parts here I can have it done in a weekend.

 

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9 minutes ago, Stugots said:

Well that's the thing .. I have taken this engine apart and does not look bad besides the bearings for for $400 get a complete rebuild kit  find a good crank for a couple hundred and I have a rebuilt bottom end. Yes I could find another engine but the only A4 I am seeing are high mileage  ones on ebay and will still run me close to that with shipping.

JDM has plenty of 35A engines but have not had any A4's for a while.

As simple as these engines are to work on if the block and heads are  good I don't understand the whole disposable thing. I am leaning towards a rebuild.

Hone the cylinders,

Pistons rings

bearings

Oil pump

all seals and gaskets

Slap the heads on and see what she does.

With all the parts here I can have it done in a weekend.

 

If you have the ability, to do the work. I'd say quit talking about it and get to work. At least you know what you'd have.. I'm not a Honda guy, but the only question I see is maybe the heads.. couple options: 1). run-em as is 2).rebuild yours 3). get some new or rebuilt ones before re-assembly.

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I like your Style Schmidty!

And yes the head exchange is a option or if possible use the 3.2R heads and cams since I am going down this road,,, If they would be a direct bolt on? @Kraut_n_Rice

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While you are in there.... Dunehoon made some custom cams for the Honda that make significant bumps in power

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7 hours ago, spize909 said:

Ryan?

Yep. We were running fast out of the western side up the flags along gecko when it went into limp mode. 

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5 hours ago, Stugots said:

Well that's the thing .. I have taken this engine apart and does not look bad besides the bearings for for $400 get a complete rebuild kit  find a good crank for a couple hundred and I have a rebuilt bottom end. Yes I could find another engine but the only A4 I am seeing are high mileage  ones on ebay and will still run me close to that with shipping.

JDM has plenty of 35A engines but have not had any A4's for a while.

As simple as these engines are to work on if the block and heads are  good I don't understand the whole disposable thing. I am leaning towards a rebuild.

Hone the cylinders,

Pistons rings

bearings

Oil pump

all seals and gaskets

Slap the heads on and see what she does.

With all the parts here I can have it done in a weekend.

 

Word. Didn’t realize they were getting harder to find these days. Rebuild the bottom end and get some TL type S heads and cams? :bigrin 

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13 hours ago, Stugots said:

Well that's the thing .. I have taken this engine apart and does not look bad besides the bearings for for $400 get a complete rebuild kit  find a good crank for a couple hundred and I have a rebuilt bottom end. Yes I could find another engine but the only A4 I am seeing are high mileage  ones on ebay and will still run me close to that with shipping.

JDM has plenty of 35A engines but have not had any A4's for a while.

As simple as these engines are to work on if the block and heads are  good I don't understand the whole disposable thing. I am leaning towards a rebuild.

Hone the cylinders,

Pistons rings

bearings

Oil pump

all seals and gaskets

Slap the heads on and see what she does.

With all the parts here I can have it done in a weekend.

 

I never understood the whole toss it and replace it thing either.  I like to rebuild and know the condition of my motors.

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Curious about the magnetic material you found. The bearing material is non-magnetic, unless they have worn through all the way to the backing, but the photos don't look like it.

On Edit:

I suppose if they have some tin in them they will be semi-magnetic.

Edited by 1HasBeen

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46 minutes ago, 1HasBeen said:

Curious about the magnetic material you found. The bearing material is non-magnetic, unless they have worn through all the way to the backing, but the photos don't look like it.

On Edit:

I suppose if they have some tin in them they will be semi-magnetic.

Seeing the material I would be comfortable with nothing less then complete disassemble and a good parts washer.

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1 hour ago, 1HasBeen said:

Curious about the magnetic material you found. The bearing material is non-magnetic, unless they have worn through all the way to the backing, but the photos don't look like it.

On Edit:

I suppose if they have some tin in them they will be semi-magnetic.

Cams usually eat themselves quickly with oil starvation

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1 hour ago, ltpyro said:

I never understood the whole toss it and replace it thing either.  I like to rebuild and know the condition of my motors.

Depends. Worn out from use? Sure, but oil starvation usually wrecks everything. Looks like @Stugots got lucky on this one, but he’ll definitely want to get it ultra-sonically cleaned and whatever else can be done to get all the particles out. Finding all of the metal that’s been eaten takes a lot of effort and one particle in the wrong spot can eat your fresh rebuild as well. Lots of tiny little oil passages in a VTEC motor. I’ve been there and done that trying to save a rare “VTEC” motor (SR20VE, Nissan calls it  Neo VVL) and would hate to see it happen to him.

Edited by Rockwood

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1 hour ago, ltpyro said:

I never understood the whole toss it and replace it thing either.  I like to rebuild and know the condition of my motors.

Money. In 3 motors (motors only, 2 different cars) I have spent $ 1150.00 . A 3.0, a 3.2s and a 3.5a4. I'm 3 for zero on getting really good used motors. Though this last go around the first 2, 3.5's wouldn't pass a leak down, just kept looking. What sold me to go Honda in the first place was my machinist, engine builder friend that stated he never has Honda motors come through his shop. Miles on these are just more proof of quality for me and not a stumbling block.

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6 hours ago, 1HasBeen said:

Curious about the magnetic material you found. The bearing material is non-magnetic, unless they have worn through all the way to the backing, but the photos don't look like it.

On Edit:

I suppose if they have some tin in them they will be semi-magnetic.

It looks course in the picture but is really creamy in consistency, no course metal was found.

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6 hours ago, Rockwood said:

Cams usually eat themselves quickly with oil starvation

I agree, usually blue/black and galling, but when his post said the cams look good it left me wondering. 

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1 hour ago, 1HasBeen said:

I agree, usually blue/black and galling, but when his post said the cams look good it left me wondering. 

Ah, missed that. Lol

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22 hours ago, Stugots said:

I like your Style Schmidty!

And yes the head exchange is a option or if possible use the 3.2R heads and cams since I am going down this road,,, If they would be a direct bolt on? @Kraut_n_Rice

The Type S cam swap is fairly common in the street world...IIRC.

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http://www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi

 

Try this and go into the search section plenty out there.

Edited by 77charger

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For complete fun I would do both.

Buy a used motor and play this season. Put the  current motor on a stand and build the heck out of it. Install after season and sell the one you ran.

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