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barneydds

Need thoughts on sxs's

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I sold my xp4 900 over the summer.  My primary ride is a 4 seat Sand Limo, but I miss the rzr as a backup/ ride for others who we take on trips that don't have anything to ride.  So, I don't want to spend any more than necessary, but I want a descent ride.  Power is important, but suspension is really what I would like to hear about.  The 900 suspension was pretty bad in stock form.  Can someone who knows tell me about the xp1000/  xp turbo/ can am x3 and the similarities/ differences?  Is the 1000 a big step up from the 900?   As always, I'm sure my post is confusing, but thoughts please....

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Wildcat xx

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I'm not the right person to ask because I know next to nothing about SxS. But maybe posting a budget and targets would help the guys who are knowledgable help with finding you the right ride. Turbo or N/A? 4 seat or 2 seat? Any loading constraints? Suspension as you mentioned is a good starting point. Hope you find the rig you're looking for

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Can am youll be impressed rides pretty good without messing with it

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Rzr velocity s less than 25k otd new 

 

I have both a xrs canam and rzr velocity s. Speed and suspension are a coin toss. 
 

easiest analogy is depending on the ride I’m going on, getting into the x3 is like slipping  into a corvette while the Rzr is like getting into an m5. Both are equally fast and nimble but I’d opt with the m5 to grab grocery’s (trail ride) and the corvette for a track day (aggressive dune rip) 

 

if the sxs is a spare to your sand car for friends and family and as your backup, the visibility and savings found in a Rzr are hard to beat. I really enjoy my canam but it’s definitely a money pit with suspension mods as a requirement along with 15” wheels a 30k xrs easily becomes 35+. Slap a cage on the Rzr and call it a day

69C1CC01-2411-4D1C-8DBD-D46F9B4ABE86.jpeg

Edited by Intro2Rhino
Elaborating

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I'm a huge fan of the Can Am X3 Turbo's.  NOBODY ever complains about them.  They are faster than anyone needs to drive a SxS, they come in different wheelbase widths and intended riding styles, and many companies have made accessories and upgrades for them.

But I have to admit, I recently realized I have not been keeping up with updates on the Polaris side.  Polaris is a strong company which shouldn't be ignored.  As a person who expects to upgrade to a modern SxS sometime in 2020, I need to do my homework on Polaris.

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The other day I was at Del Amo motorsports in Costa Mesa getting oil and filter for my Rhino and decided to check out the new Kawaski KRX 1000.

Talked with the guys there for about 20 minutes.

Build is impressive, ergonomics is great and they both said even though they sell a ton of polaris and can-am...don't discount this one. one even commented that out of the box this is the best buy.

Built stout...needs nothing but if all you do is dune you'll be lacking on HP. In the works is a bolt on turbo kit that will bump it to 209 over the stock 112.

I was super impressed with fit an finish and the Arms alone are super beefy.

comes stock with Beadlocks and 32" tires, long wheelbase is great for whoops, 68" wide, and I think the styling is very nice!

For me...It would be a strong contender for sure. If it is built anything like my KX250 I had I'd be very happy!

Just my worthless $.02

:dbart:

 

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44 minutes ago, Intro2Rhino said:

Rzr velocity s less than 25k otd new 

 

I have both a xrs canam and rzr velocity s. Speed and suspension are a coin toss. 
 

easiest analogy is depending on the ride I’m going on, getting into the x3 is like slipping  into a corvette while the Rzr is like getting into an m5. Both are equally fast and nimble but I’d opt with the m5 to grab grocery’s (trail ride) and the corvette for a track day (aggressive dune rip) 

 

if the sxs is a spare to your sand car for friends and family and as your backup, the visibility and savings found in a Rzr are hard to beat. I really enjoy my canam but it’s definitely a money pit with suspension mods as a requirement along with 15” wheels a 30k xrs easily becomes 35+. Slap a cage on the Rzr and call it a day

 

Thanks for an excellent comparison.  The part that I bolded is the thing I really need to think about!

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1 hour ago, cola said:

Wildcat xx

Eh, they have the best suspension and you don't see folded up front ends like you see on tons of X3s and nearly as many RZRs.   But there have been a ton of motor problems with them, and now the future of Cat vs. Textron or whatever is a bit shaky.  If a buyer could get one for a steal maybe, but with pricing like the Turbo models from p00laris and Canned Ham, IDK...

1 hour ago, Intro2Rhino said:

Rzr velocity s less than 25k otd new 

 

I have both a xrs canam and rzr velocity s. Speed and suspension are a coin toss. 
 

easiest analogy is depending on the ride I’m going on, getting into the x3 is like slipping  into a corvette while the Rzr is like getting into an m5. Both are equally fast and nimble but I’d opt with the m5 to grab grocery’s (trail ride) and the corvette for a track day (aggressive dune rip) 

 

if the sxs is a spare to your sand car for friends and family and as your backup, the visibility and savings found in a Rzr are hard to beat. I really enjoy my canam but it’s definitely a money pit with suspension mods as a requirement along with 15” wheels a 30k xrs easily becomes 35+. Slap a cage on the Rzr and call it a day

69C1CC01-2411-4D1C-8DBD-D46F9B4ABE86.jpeg

I don't buy the analogy, other than the X3 definitely gives you more of the sports car seating position, sitting low.  However, pure handling wise I don't think the gap isn't really anything like 'vette vs. M5.  In fact, I like the handling in my '18 XPT Fox Edition (only a 64" model, albeit with worked shocks, big rear swaybar, etc.) more than any X3 I've driven yet.

I've driven every generation of M5 other than E28 and every gen of 'vette other than C8, I've also driven X3s and almost all RZR models in both dirt and dunes.  The ACTUAL handling characteristics aren't anything like 'vette vs. M5 IMHO.  But it really depends on WHAT exact X3 vs. RZR you're comparing.  Both have 64" and 72" models and different power levels (110 HP NA 1000, 168 HP Turbo/Turbo S, 181 HP Pro for Polaris and 120, 172 and 195 HP for X3s) etc.  I personally don't like the X3 seating position for a SxS, and the steering feel and precision in the X3 has always been way lacking. 

Still, if I was buying a brand-new 2 seater right now IDK if I could pass up a X3 X RS Turbo RR... or maybe a X3 X RC Turbo RR.  If a person wants a 4 seater, IMHO the p00laris is the only way to go because the 4 seat X3s are just way, way, waaaaay too damn long.  But would I get a 4 seat Turbo S, or a 4 seat XP Pro - I'm really not sure.  I'd rather have the 72" width and travel of the S, plus it looks waaaaaay better but the Pro has some really neat features, a little more power, and has been getting really good reviews. 

 

48 minutes ago, Phoenix7 said:

I'm a huge fan of the Can Am X3 Turbo's.  NOBODY ever complains about them.  They are faster than anyone needs to drive a SxS, they come in different wheelbase widths and intended riding styles, and many companies have made accessories and upgrades for them.

But I have to admit, I recently realized I have not been keeping up with updates on the Polaris side.  Polaris is a strong company which shouldn't be ignored.  As a person who expects to upgrade to a modern SxS sometime in 2020, I need to do my homework on Polaris.

Nobody complains about them... other than everybody that does.  Look around, lots of front end problems, and ANYBODY who's ever had to work on the front end (like pulling a bent A-arm off) will certainly be complaining (get ready to take the radiator out to pull an A-arm...  yay).  Also, let's not forget clutches that need to be balanced/trued from the factory.  Or insane amounts of bump-steer built into the front geometry.  Or travel numbers that will cause it to pan-out HARD if you don't limit the factory travel.  Or...  That said, they are bad ass rides and the new 195 HP stock RR model is super tempting.  But they're not perfect, NONE of them are (I could make a list just as long for RZRs). 

 

 

 

 

Net-net, there are a LOT of great options out there and they are ALL a big step up in power, suspension, comfort etc. from a XP 900 (I owned one of those two, and have owned a XP 1000, 2 factory XP Turbos and one XP4 1000 that was long-travel and Z1-swapped so I have a decent idea about this stuff).  For pure dirt-only I'd say the XP 1000 is sufficient, but for a dune vehicle (I know the OP has a rail, but if the rail is down the RZR becomes the dune rig) especially in a 4 seat with 4 people in it the 1000 will feel under-powered and need WOT for long stretches just to "make it" in some of the bigger stuff in G.  A 1000 WILL go everywhere in G, including up China Wall, because I've done it (at least in a 2 seat) but it is maxed out a lot if you run with even a moderately fast group.  The Turbo is just sooooooooooooo close in price and the extra power (we're talking 58 more HP... that's over a 50% increase) is so nice in G.  On top of that you have a gear-driven reverse instead of chain driven, better driveline (and better coupler at the trans) and a bunch of other improvements.  

 

-TJ

Edited by tjZ06

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18 minutes ago, dbart said:

The other day I was at Del Amo motorsports in Costa Mesa getting oil and filter for my Rhino and decided to check out the new Kawaski KRX 1000.

Talked with the guys there for about 20 minutes.

Build is impressive, ergonomics is great and they both said even though they sell a ton of polaris and can-am...don't discount this one. one even commented that out of the box this is the best buy.

Built stout...needs nothing but if all you do is dune you'll be lacking on HP. In the works is a bolt on turbo kit that will bump it to 209 over the stock 112.

I was super impressed with fit an finish and the Arms alone are super beefy.

comes stock with Beadlocks and 32" tires, long wheelbase is great for whoops, 68" wide, and I think the styling is very nice!

For me...It would be a strong contender for sure. If it is built anything like my KX250 I had I'd be very happy!

Just my worthless $.02

:dbart:

 

I really want to try one of those Kawis out.  209 HP from 112 with a bolt-on turbo kit though I call BS.  That's a ~90% increase.  The "rule of thumb" (this is a very loose rule of thumb, I know there are a zillion variables) is you will about double your HP for every 14.7psi of boost.  So call it 12-13psi to go from 112 to 209 HP.   The KRX 1000's 999cc parallel twin is a 13.5:1 motor, there is NO WAY you're pushing 12+ psi of boost on 91 on a stock motor in that thing.  

Moral of the story: don't believe (any)everything a salesman tells you. ;)

 

-TJ
 

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Just now, ROBERT L said:

t. I really enjoy my canam but it’s definitely a money pit with suspension mods as a requirement along with 15” wheels a 30k xrs easily becomes 35+. Slap a cage on the Rzr and call it a day

 

 

 

I think every toy we buy is a money pit.  Did I need to do the suspension on my XP900 no but it did make it ride better. I didn’t need Sal of the led lights either but I put them on.  When I got my XRS X3 I really didn’t need to put anything on it but I did.  I did do the a-arm stiffing kit.  Went to Glamis on stock tires and had a giggling idiot of a good time.  In the off-season I went STUPID bought a cage had the shocks all done.  Put seats in it added radio GPS more LED lights all kinds of crap.  But that was my choice to do not required to do to have fun.  

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2 minutes ago, ROBERT L said:

I think every toy we buy is a money pit.  Did I need to do the suspension on my XP900 no but it did make it ride better. I didn’t need Sal of the led lights either but I put them on.  When I got my XRS X3 I really didn’t need to put anything on it but I did.  I did do the a-arm stiffing kit.  Went to Glamis on stock tires and had a giggling idiot of a good time.  In the off-season I went STUPID bought a cage had the shocks all done.  Put seats in it added radio GPS more LED lights all kinds of crap.  But that was my choice to do not required to do to have fun.  

Yup, I'm sure I have 40-45 in my XPT.  Here's a list that's probably missing some of the later mods of what we put in/on it:

-TJ

 

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5 minutes ago, ROBERT L said:

I think every toy we buy is a money pit.  Did I need to do the suspension on my XP900 no but it did make it ride better. I didn’t need Sal of the led lights either but I put them on.  When I got my XRS X3 I really didn’t need to put anything on it but I did.  I did do the a-arm stiffing kit.  Went to Glamis on stock tires and had a giggling idiot of a good time.  In the off-season I went STUPID bought a cage had the shocks all done.  Put seats in it added radio GPS more LED lights all kinds of crap.  But that was my choice to do not required to do to have fun.  

I saw someone's signature on another website that said "Life is an adventure, bring your wallet".  I'd like to change that to "Offroading is an adventure, bring your wallet".  This aspect has been an eye opener for me since getting into this in 2018.   But I still want to play the game :)

 

Edited by Phoenix7

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1 hour ago, tjZ06 said:

I really want to try one of those Kawis out.  209 HP from 112 with a bolt-on turbo kit though I call BS.  That's a ~90% increase.  The "rule of thumb" (this is a very loose rule of thumb, I know there are a zillion variables) is you will about double your HP for every 14.7psi of boost.  So call it 12-13psi to go from 112 to 209 HP.   The KRX 1000's 999cc parallel twin is a 13.5:1 motor, there is NO WAY you're pushing 12+ psi of boost on 91 on a stock motor in that thing.  

Moral of the story: don't believe (any)everything a salesman tells you. ;)

 

-TJ
 

Didn't think about the HP when he said 209...I was just stoked on the 112 out of the box.. :lmao: Considering what I have with my rhino you could see that.

:cheers:

I'd really like your take on it if you drove one.

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1 hour ago, dbart said:

The other day I was at Del Amo motorsports in Costa Mesa getting oil and filter for my Rhino and decided to check out the new Kawaski KRX 1000.

Talked with the guys there for about 20 minutes.

Build is impressive, ergonomics is great and they both said even though they sell a ton of polaris and can-am...don't discount this one. one even commented that out of the box this is the best buy.

Built stout...needs nothing but if all you do is dune you'll be lacking on HP. In the works is a bolt on turbo kit that will bump it to 209 over the stock 112.

I was super impressed with fit an finish and the Arms alone are super beefy.

comes stock with Beadlocks and 32" tires, long wheelbase is great for whoops, 68" wide, and I think the styling is very nice!

For me...It would be a strong contender for sure. If it is built anything like my KX250 I had I'd be very happy!

Just my worthless $.02

:dbart:

 

The turbo kit is by K&T. Unfortunately like the older YXZ's, the KRX engine internals are not turbo friendly and will only handle around 5 lbs, so hp will only be around 150 per K&T. It is very well built and I enjoyed driving one , but it's not any faster than my Polaris General.  The KRX rides much better though.

 

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Poor analogy on my part but basically the  x3 is much sportier than the xp (seating position/ posture in the car)  if the canam the route he takes add a front gusset kit, taco kit or aftermarket lower a arms to the 1-5k in shock tuning and the disappointment you’ll feel in your power steering 

 

I think the op wants a 4 seater replacement sxs having an xp4 previously 

 

I agree that others definitely have potential talon, wildcat xx and kawi but without a factory turbo the cost to add a turbo, manufacturer sold or 3rd party factory backed/ encouraged (gyt-r Jackson racing ect) You might as well just go crazy with an off the wall custom build like tj’s old z1 car. Definitely a kick ass Rzr even with the current batch of sxs’s 

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Thanks everyone, keep the info coming.  I'm trying to stay in the used market to keep cost down under 20k hopefully.   probably trying to stick w/ a 4 seater, but not sure.  quite frankly, the 900 was almost acceptable for what we used it for, so I'm trying not to get too crazy here.  I think I remember hearing that the 1000 wasn't much of an upgrade from the 900 due to added weight, but I would love to hear that from someone who has had both.   I assume the 1000 has improved suspension?  I think the X3's are outside of my budget although that is what I would like to have. 

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25 minutes ago, barneydds said:

Thanks everyone, keep the info coming.  I'm trying to stay in the used market to keep cost down under 20k hopefully.   probably trying to stick w/ a 4 seater, but not sure.  quite frankly, the 900 was almost acceptable for what we used it for, so I'm trying not to get too crazy here.  I think I remember hearing that the 1000 wasn't much of an upgrade from the 900 due to added weight, but I would love to hear that from someone who has had both.   I assume the 1000 has improved suspension?  I think the X3's are outside of my budget although that is what I would like to have. 

Yes, the 1000 suspension is much improved vs. the 900.  I had fully worked-over Walkers, then Kings on my XP 900 (2 seat) and my XP 1000 (2 seat) was better out of the box, and far better once Ed "the Suspension Guy" re-did the shocks (entirely new 2.5 fronts with his spring rates, real cross-overs and his valving, re-valved rears with the tenders off the front).  For $20k though I think you should be able to get a XP Turbo.  I'd avoid 2016s (I had a 2016, and it was trouble-free, but '17+ have more power, better cooling, better clutches etc.).  IMHO a 2017 is the sweet spot because all 2017 Turbos came with the Fox IBP shocks.  Ours is a 2018, and we had to get a Fox Edition to get the same shocks (starting in '18 the "base" turbo had WEs).  I doubt $20k is going to get you a Turbo S... but you might find a non-S Dynamix Edition with the fancy live-valve shocks, but still 64" width.  

 

-TJ
 

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For a backup, or for visitors, why not look at the Honda Talon? No belt, and they have been around for a bit now, and no major issues have seemed to turn up. Like the rest, the suspension needs re-sprung and tuned. If you get the urge, Jackson Racing turbo kit is rumored to be 160, and some are whispering 180, but that remains to be seen.  They did screw the pooch with 28" tires, and a small(7+ gallons)gas tank.  If the turbo doesn't uncover weak links, the R has my interest.

I had an X3 RCR and had to go through all the front end gusseting, and had the shocks reworked by Tom Morris. It was fast, and the suspension was great after Tom's magic. But the forward visibility sucks, and that really bothered me at the dunes. Can Ams have always been a bitch to work on, and this was no exception. Skid plates are riveted on, and the holes in the skids do not line up with the drain plugs. Just stupid.  It's gone.

Not a Polaris guy, never was, never will be, so I won't open that can o'worms.

XX is pretty stoutly built, but total mis-management left them circling the drain.

I sat in the KRX and did not care for the visibility, or the bulky feel.

 

 

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If you are sticking with a 4 seater just get the Turbo S with the Velocity shocks or if no budget get the Turbo S with the live valve.  Everything about the Turbo S as far as the drive train is way better than XP1000.   In my opinion, the Turbo S with the Live Value Dynamic set up is the nicest riding 4 seat SXS off the showroom floor.    Add an Eibach spring kit to it and it gets even better.   The deals will be there for the Turbo S 4 seaters. 

The Can Am X3 four seater is  nice and rides great, it is just a long SOB.  I have a friend that has one with a big turbo E85 tune on it.  It rips and ride great in the dunes.  

In a 2 seater the wheelbase of the Can Am X3 is hard to beat in the dunes and desert.   There was a 120hp model X3 in our group this past week in Glamis.  He added a tune to it and it scooted along just fine.  I think he paid $15K for it and the tune was under $700.  Great value for the performance and would be a great back up car. 

If you don't need a speed demon the new Kawi is really nice and built like a tank.    The 99" wheelbase and 68" width is a great combo.  Plus it is a good looking SXS. 

 

 

Edited by Sand Shark

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I sold my 2011 XP900 and in March of this year bought a new at the time 2018 Can Am 172hp X3. Both 2 seaters. Only have 250 miles on the new car but what a giant leap forward. I run it in the desert and mountains only but have seen them haul azz in the dunes on stock Bighorns. Some great info in this thread and amazing how far these cars have come.

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If you are looking at the used RZRs make sure to get a 17 or newer.  https://utvactionmag.com/10-all-new-upgrades-for-the-2017-polaris-rzr-xp-turbo/

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1 hour ago, 1HasBeen said:

For a backup, or for visitors, why not look at the Honda Talon? No belt, and they have been around for a bit now, and no major issues have seemed to turn up. Like the rest, the suspension needs re-sprung and tuned. If you get the urge, Jackson Racing turbo kit is rumored to be 160, and some are whispering 180, but that remains to be seen.  They did screw the pooch with 28" tires, and a small(7+ gallons)gas tank.  If the turbo doesn't uncover weak links, the R has my interest.

I had an X3 RCR and had to go through all the front end gusseting, and had the shocks reworked by Tom Morris. It was fast, and the suspension was great after Tom's magic. But the forward visibility sucks, and that really bothered me at the dunes. Can Ams have always been a bitch to work on, and this was no exception. Skid plates are riveted on, and the holes in the skids do not line up with the drain plugs. Just stupid.  It's gone.

Not a Polaris guy, never was, never will be, so I won't open that can o'worms.

XX is pretty stoutly built, but total mis-management left them circling the drain.

I sat in the KRX and did not care for the visibility, or the bulky feel.

 

 

Where is Tom Morris located? How much to rework a set of X3 shocks with new springs?

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5 minutes ago, onanysunday said:

Where is Tom Morris located? How much to rework a set of X3 shocks with new springs?

Tom Morris is in Fullerton / Placentia (SoCal) Gary fries the other partner is in lake havesu or on vacation.  Utvshocks is their website and decades of experience. Hands down the best upgrade I done to my x3 

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23 minutes ago, onanysunday said:

Where is Tom Morris located? How much to rework a set of X3 shocks with new springs?

He is in the Anaheim, CA area.   His partner Gary is in Lake Havasu, but not sure he doing any shock work these days.  He goes in and out of retirement.   A friend of mine drove in from AZ to get his shocks done by Tom.  I think he dropped them off on a Friday and picked them up the next day.   

Most shock tuners are getting anywhere from $2,000 - $2,500 to re-spring and value.  

I had Ed "Poundsand" do my shocks on my X3.   Very happy with his work. 

Completely different car once you get the shocks tuned.  It is pretty damn fun out of the box, but with the shocks working like they should it is way better.  Trail riding and the desert are much better with a good shock tune.  No more jarring in the chatter bumps and you find yourself driving faster without really noticing it.

 

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