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J Alper

Doingsand twin turbo Alper long block 383

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Rebuilt twice first tuner out 33-degrees timing under 6lbs of boost on 91 octane. 
 

doonhoon retuned it after a full rebuild 

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Twin turbo in a BFD revo.  Good times 

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Not pics 

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Detonation?

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6 hours ago, Air450 said:

Detonation?

Yes that is what detonation looks like from to much timing or not enough octane. 

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Looks kind of like when you dont have enough ring gap on a nitrous motor & you but the rings together & pop the land up off of the top of the piston. 

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@J Alper

Ive never opened one of these up. Curious on the liners or cylinder walls.  What is the deal with the thicker landings on the two cylinders?

 

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11 hours ago, J Alper said:

Yes that is what detonation looks like from too much timing or not enough octane. 

Cast stock pistons, too tight a gap on a boosted car lifted the Ring Land off - pretty typical. Detonation will usually "round" the area from the burn, but yeah detonation is Violent.  Another reason to keep valve train noise down with the right parts  and Not to disable Knock sensors on ECU's that support them.

 

Here is an example of slight detonation and a lifted Ring Land - the little puck marks on the piston are denotation   - I forgot I had this laying around

This is from a TT LS3 stroker I redid a couple years ago It was running over 20Lbs boost on c12 with methanol injection and the Methanol injector failed pump  

 Luckily that  Wiseco piston is tough, it  lifted the lands on 4 pistons this was the worst

I should mention this is why we run good pistons - car smoked and ran rough after this happened but did not even make noise or hurt the bore. 

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Edited by fullthrottleguy

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How much power is this setup making? 

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13 hours ago, Grease Monkey said:

@J Alper

Ive never opened one of these up. Curious on the liners or cylinder walls.  What is the deal with the thicker landings on the two cylinders?

 

ls.png

First go around when we go the block it was cracked so we put a sleeve in the block

second go around the typical sleeve would not work, so this is a blank sleeve, this was a custom sleeve from Darton referd to as a boosted flange sleeve,

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8 hours ago, L453Hawkins said:

How much power is this setup making? 

it made 640HP at the wheels at 6lbs of boost with 9lbs of boost creep, on a 383 going into a 2D on 930 micro stubs,

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7 hours ago, J Alper said:

it made 640HP at the wheels at 6lbs of boost with 9lbs of boost creep, on a 383 going into a 2D on 930 micro stubs,

Wait for it...

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6 hours ago, cali kid said:

Wait for it...

Bet the trans love's that combo LOL 

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18 hours ago, J Alper said:

it made 640HP at the wheels at 6lbs of boost with 9lbs of boost creep, on a 383 going into a 2D on 930 micro stubs,

Jason - 640RWHP  Is that a typo ? on a 383 at 6Lbs boost on 91 Octane????   Unless there is some magic here 6Lbs of Boost on 91 Octane is at Best 150 Crank HP 6x25HP per lbs which is what CBM, Turnkey and redline get approximately give or take 10-20HP  and thats 150 x ~80% due to Drivetrain loss, so 120RWHP gain - are you saying you can make a 383 NA with a Turbo friendly cam  make 520RWHP???   That I gotta see.... Even 9Lbs, that 460HP on a Mild 383 - what is done to the heads?  Best I have ever seen on 383 with ported heads, Fast Intake and matched  (too big for a turbo)  Cam is 421 RWHP on CBM's dyno, and I never saw that matched ...

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say in the Best case ever  and with the 9LB boost number your numbers match the best ever numbers anyone could get using a "calculated number"

Let me explain ....using the "best case Boosted power output calculator". This is what Garrett and Kenne Bell and Magnuson use as the "goal" that is rarely if ever achieved...

Boosted HP=NA HP x ((Boost PSI/14.7) +1)

So in the this case lets use RWHP and take what a "good" 383 with a turbo cam and stock manifold would make (better manifolds on mild turbos don't make more HP)   so lets say thats 400HP   (its close to that I have seen 390 commonly)  take the formula and run it through... assuming you are talking 9Lbs of boost Not 6Lbs

400 x *((9/14.7)+1)  = 644 HP   Your combo achieved the Perfect Text book number...

hardly something we ever see IRL... good job

 

 

 

Edited by fullthrottleguy

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5 hours ago, fullthrottleguy said:

Jason - 640RWHP  Is that a typo ? on a 383 at 6Lbs boost on 91 Octane????   Unless there is some magic here 6Lbs of Boost on 91 Octane is at Best 150 Crank HP 6x25HP per lbs which is what CBM, Turnkey and redline get approximately give or take 10-20HP  and thats 150 x ~80% due to Drivetrain loss, so 120RWHP gain - are you saying you can make a 383 NA with a Turbo friendly cam  make 520RWHP???   That I gotta see.... Even 9Lbs, that 460HP on a Mild 383 - what is done to the heads?  Best I have ever seen on 383 with ported heads, Fast Intake and matched  (too big for a turbo)  Cam is 421 RWHP on CBM's dyno, and I never saw that matched ...

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say in the Best case ever  and with the 9LB boost number your numbers match the best ever numbers anyone could get using a "calculated number"

Let me explain ....using the "best case Boosted power output calculator". This is what Garrett and Kenne Bell and Magnuson use as the "goal" that is rarely if ever achieved...

Boosted HP=NA HP x ((Boost PSI/14.7) +1)

So in the this case lets use RWHP and take what a "good" 383 with a turbo cam and stock manifold would make (better manifolds on mild turbos don't make more HP)   so lets say thats 400HP   (its close to that I have seen 390 commonly)  take the formula and run it through... assuming you are talking 9Lbs of boost Not 6Lbs

400 x *((9/14.7)+1)  = 644 HP   Your combo achieved the Perfect Text book number...

hardly something we ever see IRL... good job

 

 

 

I have an Alper built 383 twin turbo.  It made 670rwhp at 10psi on a mustang dyno which reads 12% low compared to a dynojet. This was on a very conservative tune thru an s4 and 934s, My tuner said we could get another 50-60 rwhp but I said I wanted it safe.   I have a video of the dyno run to back it up.   The car is stupid fast. I gave Alper a ride in it  on the flats when it was done and his hands were shaking when he got out. lol.. He builds a solid engine... I couldn't be happier. The video is on my Instagram @fettigchad. 

Edited by Cduner

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7 hours ago, fullthrottleguy said:

Jason - 640RWHP  Is that a typo ? on a 383 at 6Lbs boost on 91 Octane????   Unless there is some magic here 6Lbs of Boost on 91 Octane is at Best 150 Crank HP 6x25HP per lbs which is what CBM, Turnkey and redline get approximately give or take 10-20HP  and thats 150 x ~80% due to Drivetrain loss, so 120RWHP gain - are you saying you can make a 383 NA with a Turbo friendly cam  make 520RWHP???   That I gotta see.... Even 9Lbs, that 460HP on a Mild 383 - what is done to the heads?  Best I have ever seen on 383 with ported heads, Fast Intake and matched  (too big for a turbo)  Cam is 421 RWHP on CBM's dyno, and I never saw that matched ...

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say in the Best case ever  and with the 9LB boost number your numbers match the best ever numbers anyone could get using a "calculated number"

Let me explain ....using the "best case Boosted power output calculator". This is what Garrett and Kenne Bell and Magnuson use as the "goal" that is rarely if ever achieved...

Boosted HP=NA HP x ((Boost PSI/14.7) +1)

So in the this case lets use RWHP and take what a "good" 383 with a turbo cam and stock manifold would make (better manifolds on mild turbos don't make more HP)   so lets say thats 400HP   (its close to that I have seen 390 commonly)  take the formula and run it through... assuming you are talking 9Lbs of boost Not 6Lbs

400 x *((9/14.7)+1)  = 644 HP   Your combo achieved the Perfect Text book number...

hardly something we ever see IRL... good job

 

 

 

Alex this is great info thank you for sharing,

 

2 hours ago, Cduner said:

I have an Alper built 383 twin turbo.  It made 670rwhp at 10psi on a mustang dyno which reads 12% low compared to a dynojet. This was on a very conservative tune thru an s4 and 934s, My tuner said we could get another 50-60 rwhp but I said I wanted it safe.   I have a video of the dyno run to back it up.   The car is stupid fast. I gave Alper a ride in it  on the flats when it was done and his hands were shaking when he got out. lol.. He builds a solid engine... I couldn't be happier. The video is on my Instagram @fettigchad. 

this was a E ticket ride in a Tatum  Spider was crazy fast,

I could not even imagine being in some of the big cubed twin turbo car,

they need to do the HP wars on the back side of Dumont where no one would bug you,  

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9 hours ago, J Alper said:

 

they need to do the HP wars on the back side of Dumont where no one would bug you,  

"they"  love the attention, and you would hate all that crowds at Dumont, no more of that super fast Duning you guys do...

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On 2/24/2020 at 7:18 PM, fullthrottleguy said:

Jason - 640RWHP  Is that a typo ? on a 383 at 6Lbs boost on 91 Octane????   Unless there is some magic here 6Lbs of Boost on 91 Octane is at Best 150 Crank HP 6x25HP per lbs which is what CBM, Turnkey and redline get approximately give or take 10-20HP  and thats 150 x ~80% due to Drivetrain loss, so 120RWHP gain - are you saying you can make a 383 NA with a Turbo friendly cam  make 520RWHP???   That I gotta see.... Even 9Lbs, that 460HP on a Mild 383 - what is done to the heads?  Best I have ever seen on 383 with ported heads, Fast Intake and matched  (too big for a turbo)  Cam is 421 RWHP on CBM's dyno, and I never saw that matched ...

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say in the Best case ever  and with the 9LB boost number your numbers match the best ever numbers anyone could get using a "calculated number"

Let me explain ....using the "best case Boosted power output calculator". This is what Garrett and Kenne Bell and Magnuson use as the "goal" that is rarely if ever achieved...

Boosted HP=NA HP x ((Boost PSI/14.7) +1)

So in the this case lets use RWHP and take what a "good" 383 with a turbo cam and stock manifold would make (better manifolds on mild turbos don't make more HP)   so lets say thats 400HP   (its close to that I have seen 390 commonly)  take the formula and run it through... assuming you are talking 9Lbs of boost Not 6Lbs

400 x *((9/14.7)+1)  = 644 HP   Your combo achieved the Perfect Text book number...

hardly something we ever see IRL... good job

 

 

 

Alex dyno readings can be all over the place as well as all the environmentals and the tire size. I dynod a truck on same day same dyno and switched 33s to 37s and it was 50 hp difference. CBM ran an LS7 in my Racer on donut tires and it made high numbers. My point is there are a lot of variables. You just like to argue. You don’t add $#it to the learning or sharing that is supposed to take place. You are a F#{€Tard 

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2 hours ago, Jetjock15 said:

Alex dyno readings can be all over the place as well as all the environmentals and the tire size. I dynod a truck on same day same dyno and switched 33s to 37s and it was 50 hp difference. CBM ran an LS7 in my Racer on donut tires and it made high numbers. My point is there are a lot of variables. You just like to argue. You don’t add $#it to the learning or sharing that is supposed to take place. You are a F#{€Tard 

Sorry,  I just like facts - If I know the answers and people need to hear them I will speak up, if I don't I will shut up.  if posting facts makes me a F tart - so be it. while I don't appreciate it, I get immature thinking.... I don't have to call anyone names, I actually grew up.  You are a good guy, but I will post facts...

BTW -  Regarding Dyno Variables - I always refer people to this article its pretty good  https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0612phr-dyno-accuracy-testing/

I happen tp have some experience on this subject.  People need to know that BS is BS, and IRL is IRL.  Once I established the the numbers were on 9lbs,  I gave Jason credit for building a Textbook engine, nothing wrong with that - thats why those numbers exist so people can hit the numbers ...   I did not want anyone to think they would get THOSE number with 6Lbs - Not happening....

Jason said himself that engine "creeped" to 9lbs boost and thats the numbers he posted  I  wanted everyone to understand Where those Dyno numbers came from so I posted the formula that nearly every manufacturer of Superchargers and Turbos use I think they call that educating people on how to calculate what they should expect from an engine instead of guessing - I hope people find that stuff useful -  If you didn't in your words  get $#it from learning - thats your problem., and to your second point thats I call "sharing" in your words, how people get those numbers  - I know math can be hard sometimes...

Turbo's can be huge power adders with the right combo, and SC's can too - its why I feel Boosted cars are great in the dunes...

I also really also get that Dyno's "lie"   

I have seen numbers vary in many cases, but also on my own cars, I never hold back the truth --- A couple years ago, on one of My cars  I saw 70HP difference (TQ was the same for some reason... knowing that TQ is all a Dyno measures and HP is derived was an interesting thing)  in one day on two different Dynos - I put myself out and drove 200miles to proven that can happen.  And Yes I posted on GD both Dyno results I did in the same day  Turnkey in late morning  and  Outfront and the afternoon (same temp) - ask John he was good enough to prove his dyno is "stingy" I drove from Turnkey to his shop and ran the car - basically back to back and posted all of it on GD for peoples Information, i did not just take the Big number and say "hey my car made incredible numbers" .  I have NO fear about posting the truth, and no builder should be afraid to stand by his numbers (Like Jason did) or called out when they lie (some others) I did not call out Jaso, I said good job, his combo rocked (at 9lbs not 6)  I just gave a formula to get "his numbers and showed with 9lbs  you get there so people could see I was not just making it up . Facts matter, I am, not a democrat...

Peace 

Edited by fullthrottleguy

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To me numbers are just for discussion and selling points. What really matters is how the car works. All the hp in the world does nothing if it cant get put to the ground.   I have often wondered why you can watch a NASCAR race of 43 cars all with relitively similar engines go 500 miles pushing 10,000 rpm in a car that weighs 3400 lbs and rarely see an engine failure: and none of them have super chargers, turbos, or NOX.  I wonder if Biffle or the Busches have any take out engines laying around that would fit in a sand car.

Dont get me wrong: If I could afford it I would have the biggest numbers out there but like most of us I need to be able to load it in the trailer under its own power when its time to go home.  So hook me up with the guy that can design the motor that will last and still give me some excitement for the weekend. I want a car that works in the dunes; however it sure is fun watching the big boys at the drags  and its easier to watch one of them granade instead of me. Like I said: if I could I would. Everyone can dream 

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On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 10:31 AM, Twisted motorsports said:

To me numbers are just for discussion and selling points. What really matters is how the car works. All the hp in the world does nothing if it cant get put to the ground.   I have often wondered why you can watch a NASCAR race of 43 cars all with relitively similar engines go 500 miles pushing 10,000 rpm in a car that weighs 3400 lbs and rarely see an engine failure: and none of them have super chargers, turbos, or NOX.  I wonder if Biffle or the Busches have any take out engines laying around that would fit in a sand car.

Dont get me wrong: If I could afford it I would have the biggest numbers out there but like most of us I need to be able to load it in the trailer under its own power when its time to go home.  So hook me up with the guy that can design the motor that will last and still give me some excitement for the weekend. I want a car that works in the dunes; however it sure is fun watching the big boys at the drags  and its easier to watch one of them granade instead of me. Like I said: if I could I would. Everyone can dream 

easy to do with a small stroke Dry sump, also they thin out the bearings and other tricks, these motors only go one race, also round and round in a circle can be easier on valve train components than the whoops or clutch drops, what happens to the trans also happens to the valve train and bearings, Nascar uses a 9'' rear end and last for a season, my car uses 12.5'' ring gear and last for a season, really odd when people compare a nascar motor to a sandcar, would think comparing it to a trophy truck would make more sense,  we can build a motor for you like above, just take money,  

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1 hour ago, J Alper said:

easy to do with a small stroke Dry sump, also they thin out the bearings and other tricks, these motors only go one race, also round and round in a circle can be easier on valve train components than the whoops or clutch drops, what happens to the trans also happens to the valve train and bearings, Nascar uses a 9'' rear end and last for a season, my car uses 12.5'' ring gear and last for a season, really odd when people compare a nascar motor to a sandcar, would think comparing it to a trophy truck would make more sense,  we can build a motor for you like above, just take money,  

What transaxle are you using that has a 12.5" ring gear?

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Albins and S4D have over a 12'' ring gear ment to put 12.0 and the 2D is 10.5 and the HD is around 13''-13.5'' ring gear, 

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On 2/27/2020 at 3:11 PM, J Alper said:

Albins and S4D have over a 12'' ring gear ment to put 12.0 and the 2D is 10.5 and the HD is around 13''-13.5'' ring gear, 

Albins and S4D have an 11.5” ring gear and the 2D has a 10” ring gear. A nascar 9” ring gear doesn’t last all season because they are new every race. Yes they last all race but they don’t run the same one all year.  NASCAR engines aren’t new every time either, the engines are sealed and they have to go 2 or 3 races. 

Edited by Blue-Jay

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