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Solutions to the Abortion Dilemma


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18 minutes ago, Crusty said:

I Dream of Jeannie too :sexywave:

Barbara Eden is still HOT all these years later!

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:sexywave: = Mac's wife

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56 minutes ago, Orange_R said:

Barbara Eden is still HOT all these years later!

You know she's 90 years old, right?

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1 minute ago, Rorschach said:

You know she's 90 years old, right?

And?

 

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Just now, Rorschach said:

You know she's 90 years old, right?

Yes, I saw a recent interview and she's still so full of energy and looks great. Age is but a number these days

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Theres going to be lots of difficult decisions as medicine advances. We can already prove the serial killer gene. To what level do you start to go? What if you tested a 5 year old kid and could say he is 90% likely to hurt people. Do you place him in a special camp? Let him roam free? Crazy to think about. Then what if science gets to the point that it could prove the child who was just conceived will be 90% likely to become a killer. Would the parents want to have this child to begin with?

I dont really know how i stand on the abortion topic. I try to not really kill anything. Even spiders and stuff. I personally take a selfish route and ignore most of the big topics. Never follow politics. I realize that doing that can mean people i disagree with become in power. But then again what can i as an individual really do? Ive always said i trust my peers and the people i respect. Most of the way i vote comes from what Laurie tells me. Because i trust her perception and we usually agree on everything politics wise.

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To me, my body, my choice definitely comes into it.

This includes the body inside of you that didn't choose to be there.  With rare exception, your choices put it there. All of the other comparisons (vaccines, for example) aren't fair comparisons because they don't involve a second individual. 

But don't ask me, ask the California Penal Code and related jury instructions:

187(a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought.

CALCRIM 520: A fetus is an unborn human being that has progressed beyond the embryonic stage after major structures have been outlined, which occurs at seven to eight weeks of development.

So, the state defines a fetus as murderable at 7-8 weeks, but if you don't want to have a child because it's inconvenient (again, medical/rape exemptions should apply), you're exempted from this.  You couldn't even legally kill yourself until a couple of years ago here.

 

@Mac The problem with your OP is only people who think ahead will take the sterilization, which are likely the same people we need more of.  Antonio Cromartie, on the other hand, will still raw-dogg everything that can fog a mirror.

 

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The solutions have been available since forever:

10 Questions You Should Definitely Ask About Birth Control

This isn't really hard.  I highly doubt even a significant percentage of aborted babies are from the top rung.  Yes it does happen, but it seems to me that  getting an IUD is far less invasive, annoying, and emotionally crippling than abortion.

And yep, I know, I identified as a woman while typing this post. :biggrin:

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Rockwood said:

To me, my body, my choice definitely comes into it.

This includes the body inside of you that didn't choose to be there.  With rare exception, your choices put it there. All of the other comparisons (vaccines, for example) aren't fair comparisons because they don't involve a second individual. 

But don't ask me, ask the California Penal Code and related jury instructions:

187(a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought.

CALCRIM 520: A fetus is an unborn human being that has progressed beyond the embryonic stage after major structures have been outlined, which occurs at seven to eight weeks of development.

So, the state defines a fetus as murderable at 7-8 weeks, but if you don't want to have a child because it's inconvenient (again, medical/rape exemptions should apply), you're exempted from this.  You couldn't even legally kill yourself until a couple of years ago here.

 

@Mac The problem with your OP is only people who think ahead will take the sterilization, which are likely the same people we need more of.  Antonio Cromartie, on the other hand, will still raw-dogg everything that can fog a mirror.

 

That's really interesting about the penal code. That's my whole moral dilemma with abortions. When is the child considered a "child"? I know there's a lot of people that think as soon as conception happens but in my mind it's when they become aware or can feel pain or emotions. 

Everybody's on the bandwagon for classifying things as "sentient beings" and I wonder why that doesn't hold true for fetuses. I'm not talking normal biological reactions but actually aware.

I think a lot of people start changing their minds as they get older, my wife was super liberal about this and now she's become super conservative about it.

Edited by LegitDuner
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On 6/29/2022 at 3:01 PM, jareddustin said:

pretty sure im in the minority on this site but im ok with that, ill still put in my 2cents. 

im pro choice, i think the woman should always have the option that is her choice not some old guy in DC holding on to their bible. but i am not in favor of late term unless it has a direct affect on the mother or the baby. i do believe in quality of life over life itself. like the guys said above if abortion is going to be illegal than birth control methods need to be made easily available including surgery. i plan on getting snipped soon and i wish more guys would. and more women would consider it as well.  i have considered my self a republican since i started learning about politics in high school, but i have been pushed away by the right more as im not religious at all and i hate the right using religion as their base for everything, and this was a big push away for me. not saying im jumping to the other side as there is a lot i dont like about the dems too mainly they cant run an economy.  kinda leaves me stuck in the middle. im not a big fan of welfare programs and most GOP are not either but now they will have alot more people asking for welfare as they are forced to have a baby they should not of had. 

little side note, i think the republicans are shooting themselves in the foot. they were set up for a domination at midterms. i think the roe case is going to put a big damper on that domination. i still do think they will take over the house and senate but they are setting themselves up to be just like the left. the left went too far to the left and look what its done. i think the republicans will take power and go too far to the right forcing people to vote against them. probably have a big affect in state and local elections as well, with abortion now being a state issue i think people might look more at how they vote. her in CA we know it will be legal but i wont vote for someone who would try and change that.  i normally vote on the person not just the party i have voted for both sides on the same ballot many times. but this time i will question my vote alot more. i no longer support the justices that trump appointed, i feel they deceived during their hearings when the subject of roe was brought up. i dont think barret should of ever gotten in. i defended kavaugh alot, i dont think he did anything he was accused of but he flat out lied when it came to the topic of roe. thomas's remarks about the rights of gays to be revisited are horrible. if GOP is going to continue to put up justices that interpret laws based on religion i will not vote for them. 

Actually you are part of the largest cross section of the population and the ones who are more responsible for who gets elected than either side. 

It's the people in the middle who are the ones during the campaign they are pandering too.  In some area's it comes down to less than 50 people who's vote will choose what direction everything goes. 

 

 

Scary

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39 minutes ago, LegitDuner said:

That's really interesting about the penal code. That's my whole moral dilemma with abortions. When is the child considered a "child"? I know there's a lot of people that think as soon as conception happens but in my mind it's when they become aware or can feel pain or emotions. 

Everybody's on the bandwagon for classifying things as "sentient beings" and I wonder why that doesn't hold true for fetuses. I'm not talking normal biological reactions but actually aware.

I think a lot of people start changing their minds as they get older, my wife was super liberal about this and now she's become super conservative about it.

Yeah.  First time I heard my son's heartbeat did a lot of changing for me mentally.

Either way, it seems that if you're afraid enough of having a child to consider terminating a legal life, maybe you should put more effort into not getting knocked up or at least making changes in your life so it's not gonna "end your life"?  

But hey, nothing's anyone's fault or responsibility anymore anyway, so I shouldn't be surprised.

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Politics and religion… gulp here goes nothing. Gods take on it. Use protection and avoid most scenarios. 226C77CB-674A-444A-9C89-DF46BB2F9EE8.thumb.jpeg.d404c92d2042c3379acc43f6c16a68d9.jpegA068B077-7A3D-4D59-BAED-36C976F3AFAD.thumb.jpeg.833548f1c627f733c2ce73a831601043.jpeg
 

Abortion is taking a life even a unformed one. I side with god on this. 

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This is one of those topics where somebody will not be happy no matter what.

30% of the US says never no reason

30% says my body my choice and right up till the last second I should be able to

Then there is the majority who are in between the two extremes the 40% of us who say if you want it go ahead but don't expect us to pay for it, don't expect us to approve of it and it's not a means of birth control you effing brat.

 

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I'll be 44 this year. I knew from a very young age I didn't want kids of my own.  Not for me.

No doctor will give an a 18yo me a vasectomy.  What's a guy to do?  Put a rubber on?  Sure,  Is it 100%?  Nope.  Is a guy just supposed to put loads down the shower drain forever?  Yeah, that's not happening.

Say the same fella meets a gal, and she is of the same opinion.  No babies.  Gets IUD.  No doc will "tube tie" a young girl either.  Guy can't get a vasectomy.  No babies allowed, remember...  

So, what is the course of action if a pregnancy happens?  Couple has a child they were both 100% against, and took precautions. Maybe they have a change of heart, or despise it for changing the course of their life they intended?  Dude bails, force her to carry it to term to give it up for adoption?  Gal soaks dude for support for 18 years over something he didn't sign on for?

Roe v Wade may not have been the answer, but it being 100% overturned is bad.  The SCOTUS shouldn't have totally struck down it, IMO States are going to criminalize the act of and carrying out of abortion.  It will soon be a criminal act to cross state lines to do so.  There is firm ground for "my body, my choice" in all aspects of life.  This is going to get messy...

An unwanted pregnancy is something only the two parties that were mixin' fluids should have a say in.  The guy's rights in the situation need to be expanded as well.  Too often a chick will trap a dude with a pregnancy.  If it's early enough to terminate it he should have a say.  If the female sides on carrying it to term and keeping it, the male should be able to opt out of commitment.  It sounds course to say it, but it should be so.

Yes, your bible will get in the way of your brain when reading that.  I'm not sorry.  Conservative thinking and religion need to take a vacation from one another.

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@Kraut_n_Rice 

Well written and reasonable, but disagree with the last sentence.

For me, Bible has nothing to do with it, just feels wrong to terminate a life because you didn’t want it. The closest thing in the Bible prohibiting it that I’m aware of is if you kill a pregnant woman or cause her to miscarry, even by accident, you’re guilty of murder. Even my hippy state agrees with that. I didn’t read that and say “yeah, good idea”, I already felt that way anyway.

That being said, it’s never going away here, and while I find it personally distasteful, I’m not going to go out there and stop someone. 

Roe v Wade should’ve been overturned though. It was legislation as decided, and that is not at all for SCOTUS to decide.  Rip the bandaid off and force the legislature to deal with it. It was a good decision, no matter how temporarily painful. 

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On 7/1/2022 at 1:04 PM, MWB said:

Actually you are part of the largest cross section of the population and the ones who are more responsible for who gets elected than either side. 

It's the people in the middle who are the ones during the campaign they are pandering too.  In some area's it comes down to less than 50 people who's vote will choose what direction everything goes. 

 

 

Scary

so im part of the people who actually think and dont just blindly follow based on party and that is scary? 

politics needs to come back to the middle where there is compromise and do whats best for the people. dems and republicans have no plans on compromise and working together. they want everything their way or nothing. and us as citizens are the ones that suffer. 

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On 7/1/2022 at 12:33 PM, LegitDuner said:

That's really interesting about the penal code. That's my whole moral dilemma with abortions. When is the child considered a "child"? I know there's a lot of people that think as soon as conception happens but in my mind it's when they become aware or can feel pain or emotions. 

Everybody's on the bandwagon for classifying things as "sentient beings" and I wonder why that doesn't hold true for fetuses. I'm not talking normal biological reactions but actually aware.

I think a lot of people start changing their minds as they get older, my wife was super liberal about this and now she's become super conservative about it.

counter point just because, not talking down on your comment at all. 

yet you cant claim an unborn on your taxes because the government says it not a person. but someone else can be charged for killing an unborn baby. different applications for different situations. 

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8 hours ago, jareddustin said:

so im part of the people who actually think and dont just blindly follow based on party and that is scary? 

politics needs to come back to the middle where there is compromise and do whats best for the people. dems and republicans have no plans on compromise and working together. they want everything their way or nothing. and us as citizens are the ones that suffer. 

That’s because, like pharmaceuticals, there’s no money in the cure, but lots of money in getting you to live with it. 

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