Jump to content
SailAway

Glamis Vendors In Trouble

Recommended Posts

I am not sticking up GBS, but if I was them, I might be doing the same thing. Or maybe something? We all know they have been trying to sell for a long time, if they can limit the vending (thus more business for them), they wil be able to sell their business for more, thus retire better. If I owned a store in Mission Beach that catered to the tourist business, and someone decided they could make a living selling the same items on the boardwalk (within a short walk from me), I would fight it. Why? I have money tied up in a building, electricity, and other overhead.

Free enterprise doesn't mean you can set-up shop anywhere. Is there any other private property that can be built on and create a vendor area? What would happen if the vendor area moved away for GBS, I think it might hurt their business. People go shopping, thus they want choices. If there is one choice (GBS), and a vendor area was say a mile away, wouldn't most people go the extra mile?

I do think there must be a common ground, but I don't think monopolizing product categories is the answer. Everyone should be able to sell anything. The question to me, do the vendors have a RIGHT to rent a parcel of public land and make a living? If they do, they need to provide adequate restrooms and infrostructure to support their business, this can be with fees to the BLM (and let them do it) or by providing it by themselves, which I believe they do.

I might be a little short-sighted on this because, I mostly use the vendors for ice. I do buy food from them occasionally, but I don't like the mall mentality either. I like the repair facilties, nice to know that they are there. But have 10 different t-shirt vendors seems overkill to me also. This is camping, I don't like hanging in the Mall. but each there own.

Finding common ground should be interesting. Anyone know of any private property we can start our own vendor pads on??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I owned a store in Mission Beach that catered to the tourist business, and someone decided they could make a living selling the same items on the boardwalk (within a short walk from me), I would fight it. 

970895[/snapback]

And how would you do that? Would you compete, or sue?

And if you decided to bully them out... how many years would you wait to do it?

Vicki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

alxcook, I would disagree with you. Free enterprise does mean you can set up shop any where you want as long as it is legal. And according to our current laws (cfr43 section 2930 ) it is legal. Have you ever been to a national park that did not have a lodge or other type of services. I cant think of one. Do you think the federal gov. checked with the motels outside the park before building that lodge to insure it was ok ? I doubt it. As for investment in my business I have 5 trailers. about $250,000. in inventory,three trucks to move my equipment with, 2 generators and so on. It took me 21 years to get there , but I did it. I pay a little over $1000 per month to the BLM for 2000 sq ft of sand to sell on. Look in the business plan and see what the BLM charges off each month for pit toilets for the vendors. I have never seen one yet! 10 t-shirt vendors seem like a overkill ? So does having a Home Depot and a Lowes right across the street from each other. I just dont think the BLM should be trying to protect one business over another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just dont think the BLM should be trying to protect one business over another.

970976[/snapback]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Vicki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to everyone for your support. I hesitate in posting at all as in the past

that has gotten me in to trouble with things being taken out of context. I will

try and answer a few questions for you however. First there was a meeting

held recently with Mike Gilmore and Myself on the fulltime issue. A proposal

was given to the BLM at that meeting. Basically it stated we are not usually

open during the week anyway, however someone is always there for emergency

purposes and security. We offered to put up signage during the days now in

question that sated: Closed until______ whenever the BLM deams we can open

Please utilize the local businesses. We provided safety concerns, issues and

other possible solutions such as designating 4 fulltime pads on the flats that

would be chosen by lottery system among vendors much like Gecko. We also suggested a Vendor Liasion who would ensure that all vending rules were obeyed.

We have not recieved response from the BLM since that meeting, though they seemed at that time to be impressed with the solutions.

One thing you must also remember is that speaking for Gilmore and KD Cycle

our customer base is on the flats, not Gecko. We provide services for the users

during the week, and yes a majority of the time we are the first point of contact

in an emergency. I do understand the concerns of the Local Businesses believe

me as I have to put up with competetion in Yuma at my store. We tried to reach

a compromise, however limiting our inventory to those items not sold by the

local businesses would restrict every vendor regardless of where they are.

I take offense to a statement about the vendors gouging. Everything I sell

at my place in Glamis is either the same price as my store in Yuma and in alot

of cases it is cheaper due to the competition on the flats.

We stay fulltime because to close down and pull out every week is very costly

for us to do so, it is less costly for me to pay an employee to be in Glamis for

those 3 days than to pack up and pull back into town.

Speaking for myself and I know that Mike has done the same, we refer customers

to both the Store and Clean Genes as we cannot carry every part known to man.

If you are coming to the meeting tonight please remember that this is for us the

vendors, not just a huge bitch session. Lets be constructive.

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you are coming to the meeting tonight please remember that this is for us the

vendors, not just a huge bitch session. Lets be constructive.

Thank you

971037[/snapback]

ABSOLUTELY.

And it will remain constructive, for certain.

Not everyone views the situation to be as dire as perhaps you or I view it... that's fine, that's what makes the world go around.

Tonight's meeting is not the venue for such a debate.

Vicki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a direct mis-statement.

So L&L, it’s dandy that you don’t think they will eliminate mid-week vending

I never said any such thing. You should retract that one.

I even said:

To be sure, the fees the vendors pay will most likely go up. That is probably the biggest concern I would have, if I were a vendor, along with the weekday vending restrictions/removal of my stuff, which I don’t personally support.

The BP makes no recommendations re issues between the vendors and the private business owners. It defers to the RAMP, per BLM instructions. Mid-week vending controls are solid in the RAMP.

And, my gosh, you’re right. I should have left “In my opinion” and “largely “ out of the third sentence of my first post. It should have said:

“The stuff that Vicki is posting here from the BP background section has been taken out of context”

My bad. I thought the way I wrote it the first time was a bit ‘nicer’, but I agree, the above is factual.

Do we want to speculate some more? Sure. It’ll raise emotions and stir people up. Might as well have fun!! Reviewable facts and documents aren’t needed. COULD the BLM come up with a humongously difficult to impossible as well as extremely expensive plan to regulate inventories of vendors? No doubt. They could. Especially since they COULD have done it based on the 1987 RAMP, but they didn’t. And now that it ISN”T in the RAMP, MY GOSH, they can’t wait to go forward. Another lawsuit is JUST what they want!!! Is it possible the sky is falling? Yep. Is it possible that the aliens are gonna land in my back yard? You damn BETCHA. I’ve got THAT from some super secrete inside government sources. (Plus I read it on an internet BBS that the Aliens post on)

Do I really think any of that (related to vendor inventories vs GBS inventories) is going to happen? No. That’s not ‘rose colored glasses”. It’s being realistic. The BLM has had 17yrs (from the 1987 RAMP) to create such a program. No, I don’t think they will start now that it has been ELIMINATED from the RAMP. The are not specifically directed to create that process in the new RAMP. As I said in my initial post, a compromise is seriously hoped for. I hope the meeting tonight facilitates that compromise. I want the vendors there 7 days a week. Limiting inventories is ridiculous.

But I also think the out of context stuff un-necessarily stirs emotions and hard feelings, doesn’t solve problems and doesn’t foster equitable negotiations and solutions. That was the intent of my initial post. To put the facts in the perspective in which they were written.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Kathy and Mike, those of us that know you both really appreciate your help at the dunes. icon_smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In support of Glamisqueen…

I have personally had Gilmores refer me to Clean Genes on at least one occasion. Sometimes I’ve found stuff cheaper at one place then the other, in both directions. Prices, as far as I can tell have been reasonable, considering it’s freeking 25 miles to town, and in many cases the same as or cheaper then home.

The vendors are needed. I also don’t have a problem with Mikes stuff (or anyones) sitting out there all season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

L&L, as has been said, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion. What you view as speculation, others, perhaps with a closer field of vision and broader knowledge base, view as anything but speculation.

In the opinion of many of the long term vendors, the TRT, the United Desert Gateway, and more than just a handful of members of the duning community, the vendors of vendor row in the north dunes are in a bad situation that has been steadily getting worse. This was not sudden... but the time was not right for action until now.

And that action is what will be discussed tonight.

The wonderful thing is, there is no requirement to attend tonight's strategy meeting, so anyone who doesn't see the need for such a thing can be free from obligation for the evening.

Vicki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there are a couple of points being missed:

1. There were vendors in the dunes before any of the current business/land ownwers took ownership. If GBS and CG are losing money it really isn't the vendors or the BLM's problem to worry about. When Home Base was around the goverment didn't regulate how close Home Depot could be. The BLM has stated that with this new ramp they want to provide the safest and most enjoyable experince for the users/dunners. By eliminating vending in the flats and Gordon's how is that safer and more enjoyable. I would like to know what those land owners have done to IMPROVE the dunes and HELP the BLM.

2. As far as what was and wasn't implimented in the 1987 or what will or will not be implimented with this ramp. If it's in the ramp it can be implimented, that is at the area mangers descreation. What duners may not know is there is a high turn over rate at that position. If the new area manager wants they can impliment everything in the ramp. Just ponder this what if next year the lottery at gecko comes up and 2 t-shirt vendors, a food vendor and fire wood vendor win. It's 4:30 p.m. and you broke your whip or your tire needs repair. Where are you going to go? This is a very real possablity. This vendor issue concerns you the dunners as well. Even if your a dunner who has never bought anything from the vendors. There will come a time when you will need to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bandit.gif

lucky13 ............ what is your interest in this ?? I see you are new, just for this thread.

blury.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm Mike G's son.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm Mike G's son.

971327[/snapback]

GOT IT !!!!!!! Good luck at the meeting, I hope it all gets straightened out.

We, duners, do apprecitate you being there. Our group has used your services more than once.

beer.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm Mike G's son.

971327[/snapback]

You forgot duner and ISDRA recreationist icon_biggrin.gif

Vicki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LL CORVAIRS, Maybe I am missing something in the business plan. I just dont think that all of page 41 is background. Maybe we can figure that out tonight. Regardless, the other issues are worth fighting for. This past season there were 11 fulltime vendors at the north dunes, so if those same 11 vendors want to be full time next year they will have to be one of the 4 names drawn out of a hat. So you could possably end up with 4 food vendors or 4 t-shirt vendors. This just wasnt thought out real well. And any time the BLM puts anything in writing I take notice, whether its background or not. So many dune users dont realize what we have already lost,( I am one of the stupid ones that believed them in the 80's when they said we will shut the north dunes forever and you can recreate on the south dunes forever! ) and I just dont want to lose anything else. One of these days we are all going to have to stand up to these people or we wont have any place to ride or sell. And I dont mean trade this for that, I mean just say we are not trading our rights away anymore ! PERIOD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One of these days we are all going to have to stand up to these people or we wont have any place to ride or sell. And  I dont mean trade this for that, I mean just say we are not trading our rights away anymore ! PERIOD.

971399[/snapback]

bandit.gif

That will be one trip I will not miss. Notworthy.gifbeer.gif

Edited by SOUTHERN BOY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I owned a store in Mission Beach that catered to the tourist business, and someone decided they could make a living selling the same items on the boardwalk (within a short walk from me), I would fight it. 

970895[/snapback]

And how would you do that? Would you compete, or sue?

And if you decided to bully them out... how many years would you wait to do it?

Vicki

970956[/snapback]

There are many ways to do this, the point I was making is, is that vendors are on Public lands, does that mean it is everyone's right to do as they see fit on Public lands? I have not picked a side on this debate at all, please read my entire post.

I do think running a private enterprise on public lands is the point. GBS runs their business on private lands?? Is that correct? Again, I don't think the BLM should try to limit what people sell or for that matter the price they sell it for, I don't think that is legal. I am sure there are some anti-trust laws that stop that (price fixing and such).

Vendors, don't get me wrong, I don't want to see you guys go away. I was just trying to point out the view of the GBS. All they are trying to do is protect their investment, just like you guys.

Question, who pays more, the vendors in BLM fees, or the GBS in property taxes? I know if I was the GBS, that would be my arguement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bandit.gif

Where are the fees that the venders are paying.... actually going to or for ??????

Similar to our $90 annual fees ?????? blury.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
alxcook, I would disagree with you. Free enterprise does mean you can set up shop any where you want as long as it is legal. And according to our current laws (cfr43 section 2930 ) it is legal. Have you ever been to a national park that did not have a lodge or other type of services. I cant think of one. Do you think the federal gov. checked with the motels outside the park before building that lodge to insure it was ok ? I doubt it. As for investment in my business I have 5 trailers. about $250,000. in inventory,three trucks to move my equipment with, 2 generators and so on. It took me 21 years to get there , but I did it. I pay a little over $1000 per month to the BLM for 2000 sq ft of sand to sell on. Look in the business plan and see what the BLM charges off each month for pit toilets for the vendors. I have never seen one yet! 10 t-shirt vendors seem like a overkill ? So does having a Home Depot and a Lowes right across the street from each other. I just dont think the BLM should be trying to protect one business over another.

970976[/snapback]

Mike, I appreciate everything you guys have done for the duner, trust me.

I disagree to a point, you don't have every right to operate a private business on public lands, there has to be special circumstances (vendor permit) to do that. As for the National Parks arguement, every business that operates within a National Park is paying the governement for the rights for all concessions. As for Yosemite, Yellowstone, and Grand Canyon, it is a company called Delaware North, they operate ALL concessions and anything that is sold. They bidded for that contract. There are no private business's within the park boundaries that have not bidded for that right.

Again, I don't think the BLM can limit what you sell and what you sell it for, there are laws against that. So, I agree that the BLM can't protect one business over another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the last three years we have been required to furnish the BLM with alist of items we sell. Suposedly this is to insure we do not sell anything ilegal. If I was stupid enough to sell anything ilegal and then stupid enough to tell the BLM about it, I dont deserve to be there! This past year we were required to furnish a price list for all items that we sell! I called them to ask why and they told me that in case of a national emergency its ilegal to gouge the public on prices, this way we can check on you. So I asked them if a nuclear bomb went off in LA that meant they would come make sure I wasnt over charging for a Banshee clutch cable? They said that could be one example!  Who do you think has our price list and inventory list now ?

970267[/snapback]

Mike G, it sure sounds to me like you have been a victim of industrial espionage. angryfire.gif

Between the direct reference to the Glamis Beach Store's concerns in the BLM propaganda and now their illegal use of their power to obtain proprietary info (your inventory and price list) you do have enough suspicious activity that pretty much spells out who is in bed with who.

The question is, how much are they bribing the gov't official to act in this corrupt manner? What jurisdiction do they think they have to request inventory and price information?

It's their job to ensure no illegal merchandise is being sold in the area, but that means they should be WALKING around doing their jobs, not demanding such comprehensive info and providing it to your competitor!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike G, it sure sounds to me like you have been a victim of industrial espionage.  angryfire.gif

971523[/snapback]

And what has been posted here is truly just the tip of the iceberg!

Vicki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

axlcook, I might not have been to clear on my point. CFR 43 SEC2930 does deal with selling on public land, and yes anyone can do it if they meet the reqirments. We operate under a special recreation permit, which is covered under CFR 43. So I am meeting these requirments as are other vendors or we wouldnt be issued permits. Again my problem is the question, Why is the BLM restricting my business in order to help another business. To me thats restriction of trade. I hope you can make the meeting tonight , I talk a lot faster than I type.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the meeting is at Mexico Chiquitos in Temecula?? What time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

THIS DISCUSSION WAS JUST BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION- I AM GLAD IT IS FINALLY GETTING OUT TO THE PUBLIC WHAT A BATTLE US VENDORS HAVE TO FIGHT EACH SEASON-

IT SEEMS THAT SOME PEOPLE DO NOT WANT VENDORS OUT IN GLAMIS- THEY MIGHT CLAIM WE ARE TAKING MONEY AWAY FROM THEM-

HOW DO YOU THINK EVERY TOWN FEELS WHEN WAL-MART MOVES IN?

BUT WE ARE NOT WAL-MART- JUST SMALL BUSINESSES WHO WORK VERY HARD TO BE THERE FOR OUR CUSTOMERS. WE LOOK FORWARD TO EACH SEASON NOT ONLY IN HOPES OF TURNING A BUCK- BUT TO SEE ALL OF OUR HAPPY RETURNING CUSTOMERS AND PLAY IN THE SAND.

NOW BY SAYING "TURNING A BUCK" DOES NOT INQUIRE THAT WE MAKE A FORTUNE- SOME MIGHT BECAUSE OF PRODUCT RESALE- BUT FROM ALL THE YEARS I HAVE BEEN DOING BUSINESS OUT IN GLAMIS- I NET JUST ENOUGH TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE SUMMER. INFLATION HITS EVERYONES POCKETS- SOME DEEPER THAN OTHERS.

WHAT I AM GETTING AT (FOR ALL THOSE WHO STAND BACK AND WATCH)

AFTER STOCK, GAS, PROPANE, EMPLOYEES, PERMITS, TAXES, ETC- I MUST BE CONDUCTING BUSINESS IN GLAMIS FOR FUN......BECAUSE I AM IN NO WAY SITTING IN A MANSION, NOR AFFORD A QUAD.

SOME VENDORS CHARGE THE SAME PRICES FOR PARTS AS THEY DO IN THEIR OFF GLAMIS RETAIL STORES. IF YOU THINK SOMEONE IS CHARGING YOU TOO MUCH FOR A PRODUCT- MOVE ON- SHOP SOMEWHERE ELSE-

BTW- THIS IS "THE ELITE" IN CASE THE HOG THING WAS A SURPRISE....

SORRY I MISSED EVERYONE AFTER TURKEY DAY- HAD TO DROP MY BUSINESS TO TAKE CARE OF MY FATHER- BUT I HAVE A REALLY DEAR FRIEND WHO SENT ME A BAG OF SAND TO DALLAS- THANKS FRIEND!!!

ALL THIS BOILS DOWN TO IS A LACK OF COMMON SENSE-

WE ARE DEALING WITH THE GOVERMENT........

AND SOME SQUEAKY WHEELS..........

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION- AND WHAT I COULD GET DOWN WITH MY LIMITED TIME TODAY-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Preview Post

More Links

©2001 GlamisDunes.com.
All rights reserved.

×
×
  • Create New...