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King bypass tube adjustment range ??


jlkenter
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 I know they say run the adjuster all the way closed and then count how many turns out ,but where is the limit of how far out you can go and still be in the adjustment range ? How many full 360 degree turns out from the fully closed position? Hope this makes sense.

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You should call the chassis builder or find somebody with the same car and measure theirs. That’ll just get you a starting point. Tuning the bypass valves is a process that takes a lot of time and driving. 

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They will stop turning at either end of adjustment range.. Think of bypass adjustment, as well as most adjusters on shocks,(rebound or compression) like an outdoor hose bib on a house.. Soft represents all the adjuster way open, allowing max oil movement with the least restriction (faucet wide open). The first crank of the faucet probably doesn’t change flow that much if at all.. As you start turning it closed, the closer you get to closing, change starts happening faster/ and more incremental the closer you get to closing the faucet.. Same applies to full hard/firm adjustment on shocks.. its kind of like a bell curve. First part will be fairly flat with a gradual increase, and somewher around halfway, the increase becomes ever more vertical than lateral the further you turn them in.. effectively adjusters on shocks are controlling oil movement..either allowing it to happen freely, giving a softer compression/faster rebound.. or restricting it..firming the compression/slowing rebound.

Edited by Schmidty
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Thanks Guys, I understand the basics of how they work. On most dirt bike suspension it is publicized , the range is "24 clicks" or "so  many turns"on the rebound and "x" amount of turns on the compression.  This is my first time to have King triple bypass shocks and  will be wanting to readjust the suspension for a plusher ride. The previous owner used to like to jump the car and  my wife has a bad back so the car will be staying on the ground and not need such a stiff set up. Right now  the rear rebound is 4 turns out, compression is 1 turn and 1/2 turn on the short tube. So I was curious how much range I have to play with and if all three tubes had the same amount of adjustment. I just thought with all the knowledge out there it would by an easy answer. I guess I will just physically go back out each adjuster and count the turns myself.

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I have not had a chance to test out the suspension yet ,but I am guessing  that is where it can be soften up for a plusher ride. The smaller bumps  is what bothers her back the most. Actually crossing other cars tire ruts in the wet sand is what  the problem is in our old car.( 1000 lb mid engine mini car with small tires). Now we have a 3000 lb rear engine ls five seater with 37 inch front tires with triple bypass. The front tire roll out alone will make a big difference ,but i want to make it as enjoyable as I can so at the end of the day she is happy and not in pain. Happy wife Happy life.

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can you move your front end up and down with your body at least say 10"  you might have too stiff a spring on there.  almost every single car I have ever bought was over sprung. That makes a HUGE difference in a plush ride. 

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Let me start off with I weigh 155 #.  I haven't had it in the sand yet ,but on the concrete no way! I know tire scrub will be different in the sand but how much ?  With all my weight bouncing down on it  it don't really move. I can lift up on the front end and it will move a couple of inches. The car has 22 plus inches of travel in the front. I had to jack it up about 14 inches from ride height to get the tires off the ground To get it on my trailer to get it home I jacked up the front and strapped it in . It went from 95 inches to 79 inches.

20220714_081009.jpg

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I am no suspension expert but I have owned over 30 rails and looking at that car and you not being able to move it up and down I would bet money that the springs are too heavy for that car.  There isn't that much preload on those springs and being that stiff I would take out at least 100lb of spring rate out of front and back.  If you have about 2 to 2.5 in of preload to get to ride height then you springs are correct and should offer the smoothest ride in my experience. That car should ride like butter.   I personally think getting the suspension dialed in is more important than power.  Dejay Dumas is in cal.  He charges $100 per shock to revalve and rebuild.  then if you have a group $900 for tuning in the sand.  He has done a great job on my buggy and can am.  He is doing 2 more cars for me this month. Give him a call. 619.415.5897

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Should be 1-2" of preload to get ride height.  If so, you're fine on rates, might be some room for improvement, but if you're too soft it becomes a floppy mess and G-outs suck.  At 155lbs, you shouldn't really be able to move it more than an inch, since 155lb combined rate is about right on a buggy like that, especially if you put 4 people in it.

Ride height should retain at minimum 1/3 of your total travel.  50/50 can be better, so long as you're not bottoming excessively.  If you don't retain enough down travel, the car falls into holes instead of the tire.  That being said, if your car has 8" of uptravel/14" down right now up front at that ride height, your shocks might be too long.  Not much you can do about that without spending money on shocks, and I wouldn't lift it much more than it is now since you'll get into shitty geometry on the suspension itself.  How's the rear for ride height and available travel?

As for long/short tube, that can be different on different shocks, especially if someone ordered custom ones for some reason.  Either way, the tubes adjust the suspension where they exist (between where they're welded to the body).  Generally speaking, on a standard shock, the short tube is the big bump adjuster, and the long tube is the small bump adjuster.  So, if small bumps feel "sharp", loosen the compression screw on the middle zone (or long) tube.  If small bumps feel like the car is falling in instead of the suspension, loosen rebound in the middle zone.  If it's bottoming to easily, turn the screw in on the compression side closes to the top of the shock (usually short tube).  For "my back hurts" type moments, I assume most of your work will be in the compression side of things, but don't overlook how too much rebound can make a buggy ride like chit.

Edited by Rockwood
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Thanks guys for the info. All this reassures what I thought to be the correct working of the suspension. My initial findings of 1 turn  and 1/2 turn out from closed lead me to question maybe the valving or something might be off.  If the range is 4 turns of adjustment maybe,but if it is 20 turns of adj. it is near the  extreme end it might need to be addressed. I will check the preloads along with count the turns on the adjusters on rebound and compression  and see what the range is on each. I have until the middle of November to get the car dialed in for the wife. The car should be close and hopefully with some adj. I can make it plusher .If not I don't have a problem paying a pro to make it better.

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7 hours ago, jlkenter said:

Thanks guys for the info. All this reassures what I thought to be the correct working of the suspension. My initial findings of 1 turn  and 1/2 turn out from closed lead me to question maybe the valving or something might be off.  If the range is 4 turns of adjustment maybe,but if it is 20 turns of adj. it is near the  extreme end it might need to be addressed. I will check the preloads along with count the turns on the adjusters on rebound and compression  and see what the range is on each. I have until the middle of November to get the car dialed in for the wife. The car should be close and hopefully with some adj. I can make it plusher .If not I don't have a problem paying a pro to make it better.

I would say go drive it first and see what it’s doing before you start making changes. 

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On 9/22/2022 at 8:14 PM, Squatcher said:

I am no suspension expert but I have owned over 30 rails and looking at that car and you not being able to move it up and down I would bet money that the springs are too heavy for that car.  There isn't that much preload on those springs and being that stiff I would take out at least 100lb of spring rate out of front and back.  If you have about 2 to 2.5 in of preload to get to ride height then you springs are correct and should offer the smoothest ride in my experience. That car should ride like butter.   I personally think getting the suspension dialed in is more important than power.  Dejay Dumas is in cal.  He charges $100 per shock to revalve and rebuild.  then if you have a group $900 for tuning in the sand.  He has done a great job on my buggy and can am.  He is doing 2 more cars for me this month. Give him a call. 619.415.5897

a $100 PER SHOCK for a seal kit, oil, valving change and labor???  Damn, I'm going to start farming out my 300+ shocks a year to him!!!  King seal kits are $35-$65 for each shock.  Oil is approximately $40-$60 per gallon and will use $50 worth of oil per 4.  Shims are $5.00 each.  Labor is bare minimum $50.00 per shock (shade tree mechanic), plus oil disposal.  Without overhead, to break even is $100+ per shock.  Seems crazy that someone would only charge $100 per shock.  Next your going to tell me he only charges $20 per spring...   :ez: 

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On 9/22/2022 at 7:36 PM, jlkenter said:

Let me start off with I weigh 155 #.  I haven't had it in the sand yet ,but on the concrete no way! I know tire scrub will be different in the sand but how much ?  With all my weight bouncing down on it  it don't really move. I can lift up on the front end and it will move a couple of inches. The car has 22 plus inches of travel in the front. I had to jack it up about 14 inches from ride height to get the tires off the ground To get it on my trailer to get it home I jacked up the front and strapped it in . It went from 95 inches to 79 inches.

20220714_081009.jpg

Very nice Revolution sand car. I would say to drive it first. I had a Revolution car for awhile and it is a very smooth ride. Especially with the 3.0 King bypass shocks in the rear.  

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I wouldn’t worry about the adjustment range too much. Some use the bypass to do all the work, some use both, some use the shock to handle most situations and the bypass to tune out extremes. 

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DJ is more than $100/shock, i just picked up mine the other day.  He's a damn smart guy.  If you need shock assistance please call him and get a quote.  

He is in glamis quite often doing shock tuning.  Typically on off weekends so there is not a bunch of traffic, normally from Friday afternoon through Sat afternoon.  He parks by the sand highway so you can shoot down to Olds or through the whoops by the 78.

 

20220924_102253.jpg

Edited by Bobalos
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On 9/22/2022 at 4:03 PM, jlkenter said:

I have not had a chance to test out the suspension yet ,but I am guessing  that is where it can be soften up for a plusher ride. The smaller bumps  is what bothers her back the most. Actually crossing other cars tire ruts in the wet sand is what  the problem is in our old car.( 1000 lb mid engine mini car with small tires). Now we have a 3000 lb rear engine ls five seater with 37 inch front tires with triple bypass. The front tire roll out alone will make a big difference ,but i want to make it as enjoyable as I can so at the end of the day she is happy and not in pain. Happy wife Happy life.

For improvement on the cross ruts, you can run a flutter stack. I've done that on all 3 of my cars, and it makes a huge improvement. You can also run more free bleed and it helps also. I prefer the flutter stack though.  

This is the last thing to do though, springs first, valving second, bypass tubes third, then after everything works, but the cross ruts suck, then flutter stack.

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On 9/23/2022 at 9:38 PM, Marlboroman said:

a $100 PER SHOCK for a seal kit, oil, valving change and labor???  Damn, I'm going to start farming out my 300+ shocks a year to him!!!  King seal kits are $35-$65 for each shock.  Oil is approximately $40-$60 per gallon and will use $50 worth of oil per 4.  Shims are $5.00 each.  Labor is bare minimum $50.00 per shock (shade tree mechanic), plus oil disposal.  Without overhead, to break even is $100+ per shock.  Seems crazy that someone would only charge $100 per shock.  Next your going to tell me he only charges $20 per spring...   :ez: 

OK so you are correct.  I talked to him and a full service and revalve is $150 per shock. Just a revalve is $100 per shock.  He has 8 of my bypasses right now for two cars.  He will tune them in the sand for $900 per car. (has to be more than one car) Send him all you got I am sure he would love it. He did my can am, and Robert L's one weekend and I can't believe what the car will do.   Also My JP car he dialed in the same weekend. Now he is doing two funcos for me. jlkenter it is soooooo worth it to have your shock gone though and dialed in.  Your wife will enjoy the car more and you can drive it harder and safer. 

 

Edited by Squatcher
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This may be an odd question but can you clock the upper cap to change the way the body sets. I never been that far into my bypass but would like to get it into a different spot. 

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