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New Parking Ordinance

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Dont we own the land?

And the BLM only manages it.

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Hey Tom,

What if you have the pass on your Motorhome and then you drive your Samari ???

Then what ???

Where do you put the pass ??? Both are motorized... blink.gif

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All street legal motor vehicles parked in ISDRA will need a permit. Driving down gecko or any other public road requires current DMV registration.

Sound like there trying to collect money for all the steet vehicles in ISDRA.

I would suggest you remove your license plates before going offroading!

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bandit.gif

Hey Tom,

What if you have the pass on your Motorhome and then you drive your Samari ???

Then what ???

Where do you put the pass ??? Both are motorized...  blink.gif

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Well in my case..the samy has a blown motor so it wont be going out this year...but I see your point...

I am not realy to worried about it. IF a ranger were to show up while I was in camp and try to write a ticket, Im pretty confident that he would understand that the samy is not the primary vehicle. If he wasnt able to understand that, Im pretty sure a judge would.

I dont think there are many people who accually trailer in second vehicle as I have with the samy. So I dont think its much of an issue.

Also, in my situation, I just park the samy in the trailer...

I know its not a perfect situation, but I think even of someone got a ticket, they could win it in court..

I would suggest you remove your license plates before going offroading!

that is a great point there...one of my friends a green sticker on his samy just for that reason.

Edited by tom simrak

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I know its not a perfect situation, but I think even of someone got a ticket, they could win it in court..

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bandit.gif

SEE>......... I don't understand why I have to be hassled firstly, then be bothered with my valuable time to go and fight something that was wrong to begin with...

are they going to reimburse me for my time $$$$$$$$ if I was not in the wrong?

Can I counter sue them for harrasment ???

blury.gif

And that is exactly what it is.

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I know its not a perfect situation, but I think even of someone got a ticket, they could win it in court..

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It's my understanding there is no "court" and that this will be treated through an "administrative process" just like all other parking tickets in all other cities are being handled now.

Vicki

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I know its not a perfect situation, but I think even of someone got a ticket, they could win it in court..

1174260[/snapback]

It's my understanding there is no "court" and that this will be treated through an "administrative process" just like all other parking tickets in all other cities are being handled now.

Vicki

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bandit.gif

blury.gif As usual, I'm confused again. SO, if you get a ticket, you just have to pay it....... or it goes against your vehicle and then there will be penalties added ??? No grounds to fight it on ???????? blink.gif

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Tom, I do not believe it is legal to double register your vehicle with a street license and a green sticker.

Also, removing your stree license plate would be illegal as well.

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Those are issues directly tied to the pass. Here's my main point with this new ordinance though. If/When this ordinance is passed what other restrictions will the BLM apply since they will now have free reign.

Here's your black cloud... "any and all additional requirements that may be prescribed by the owner of the lands". I see this as a pretty significant change from the current/old version.

It looks to me like you can get a $100 ticket if they can't SEE your pass...!!!

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that's a $100 ticket if it fails to meet the criteria in section 10.32.010 which includes seeing it. It also includes "any and all additional requirements that may be prescribed by the owner of the lands".

Hypothetically, if the BLM put out policy that "all permits would be displayed in the windshield... and visible from the East" we'd all be parking in one direction to avoid getting a $100, $300, then $500 fines attached to our DMV record. Basically, this ordinance puts full control of it in whatever the BLM drafts up... in addition to having it prominently displayed plthumbsdown.gif

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I know its not a perfect situation, but I think even of someone got a ticket, they could win it in court..

1174260[/snapback]

It's my understanding there is no "court" and that this will be treated through an "administrative process" just like all other parking tickets in all other cities are being handled now.

Vicki

1174265[/snapback]

bandit.gif

blury.gif As usual, I'm confused again. SO, if you get a ticket, you just have to pay it....... or it goes against your vehicle and then there will be penalties added ??? No grounds to fight it on ???????? blink.gif

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Just like the ticket I got for having my trailer parked next to the house. We have the 72 hour rule. I "fought" it by submitting the facts in writing. In the meantime, I bought a new motorhome. The fine for this citiation was on my DMV report and I could not buy the new motorhome (because I could register it) without first paying for the ticket. If my registration had come due before the ticket was taken care of the same thing would happen... no registration.

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Just like the ticket I got for having my trailer parked next to the house. We have the 72 hour rule. I "fought" it by submitting the facts in writing. In the meantime, I bought a new motorhome. The fine for this citiation was on my DMV report and I could not buy the new motorhome (because I could register it) without first paying for the ticket. If my registration had come due before the ticket was taken care of the same thing would happen... no registration.

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Exactly.

So much for due process.

Vicki

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Tom, I do not believe it is legal to double register your vehicle with a street license and a green sticker.

Also, removing your stree license plate would be illegal as well.

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It used to be a no no...but now it can be done.

A very good family friend is a DMV branch manager and she says it's OK now and liek I said, my friend has it on his sammy.

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Here's your black cloud... "any and all additional requirements that may be prescribed by the owner of the lands". I see this as a pretty significant change from the current/old version.

Hozey, I appreciate your passion...really I do, and Im just paying devils advocate with ya...

But the section with the above wording is referring to private land...not public land. I think if you really read this ordinance, it is referring to parking on private property. There is no wording anywhere about parking and displaying passes on public land.

I really think this is a no brainer and has no effect on how we display our passes while at glamis.

It looks to me like it mostly will stop you from parking at the Glamis store or the dirt lot across the street from it...or maybe any public land on the other side of the train tracks...if there is any private property.

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Dont we own the land?

And the BLM only manages it.

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Yes we do and so does Daniel Patterson...but nice try.

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But the section with the above wording is referring to private land...not public land. I think if you really read this ordinance, it is referring to parking on private property. There is no wording anywhere about parking and displaying passes on public land.

I really think this is a no brainer and has no effect on how we display our passes while at glamis.

Tom it sounds like you only read the bit that Hozay posted (which is the current ordinance) and not the PDF that Vicki posted (whcih is the revised version they're trying to get passed.)

The revised version specifically makes exceptions for enforement of recreational permits.

Under the "Exempt Locations" part in the new version they added at the end:

"...Notwithstanding the above, this Chapter shall apply to locations with respect to which the County has entered into a Cooperative Agreement under the Federal Lands Recreation Enchancement Ace (Public Law 108-477) and as set forth under 16 U.S.C.S 6801 et. seq. (Prior code 51601)"

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But the section with the above wording is referring to private land...not public land. I think if you really read this ordinance, it is referring to parking on private property. There is no wording anywhere about parking and displaying passes on public land.

I really think this is a no brainer and has no effect on how we display our passes while at glamis.

Tom..you might have missed this in section 1032.026 Exempt locations:

Notwithstanding the above, this Chapter shall apply to locations with respect to which the County has entered into a Cooperative Agreement underthe Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act (Public Law 108477) and as set forth under 16 U.S.C.S. 6801 et. seg. mor code Q 51601)

I was thinking the same thing you were until I read this sentence. I'd bet this sentence was included specifically for the isdra.

and while were here, you wrote this too:

I am not realy to worried about it. IF a ranger were to show up while I was in camp and try to write a ticket, Im pretty confident that he would understand that the samy is not the primary vehicle. If he wasnt able to understand that, Im pretty sure a judge would.

Have you gone to court lately? I've found the system is completely corrupt in that if it's my word against a revenuer, I lose, regardless of the truth. Someone in their infinite wisdom has allowed that the money grubber who wrote the citation is not capable of making a mistake, and thus their "word" carries more weight than a mere citizen. I'm not betting my $100 that I could convince any judge that these superior beings were wrong...but I'll certainly be in your corner, hoping against hope that you could..icon_smile.gif

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I would hope the spirit of the law is enforced vs the letter. There is a differance. Personally, Im not into all the restrictions. How it is enforced or interpreted is the key.

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I was thinking the same thing you were until I read this sentence. I'd bet this sentence was included specifically for the isdra.

Im sorry, I will still disagree. The ordinance says you cannot park on private property without a pass or permission..blaa blaa blaa...

Then we are told of the exceptions...

one exception is where the County has entered into a Cooperative Agreement.

All that does is nullify some of the exceptions.

It doenst change the original ordinance.

Fine, so in areas where the County has entered into a Cooperative Agreement , we cannot park on private property without a pass.

In other words, the ordinance is enforcable in areas where the County has entered into a Cooperative Agreement... but what is the ordinace? No parking on private property without permission or a pass.

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Ok, now I'm totally confused. Will this affect the ISDRA or not? I was under the impression that it would. WTF is going on in here 25bangin.gif

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Dont we own the land?

As a public owner of public land, I hereby give you permission to park on my .00000000384 undivided common interest in ISDRA. laughing.gif

Bill.

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Ok, now I'm totally confused. Will this affect the ISDRA or not? I was under the impression that it would. WTF is going on in here 25bangin.gif

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anyone know for sure? icon_confused.gif

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Ok, now I'm totally confused. Will this affect the ISDRA or not? I was under the impression that it would. WTF is going on in here 25bangin.gif

1174838[/snapback]

anyone know for sure? icon_confused.gif

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Yes, it does apply to the ISDRA because of the specific inclusion of

Notwithstanding the above, this Chapter shall apply to locations with respect to which the County has entered into a Cooperative Agreement under the Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act (Public Law 108-477) and as set fort under 16 U.S.C.S. § 6801 et. Seq. (Prior code § 51601)

This caveat should not have gone under “exempt locations” because of the confusion that is caused by its placement there... that’s probably just one of the things that will be fixed by the next draft.

So... who’s going to be there on Tuesday to give their input on this?

Vicki

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Ok, now I'm totally confused. Will this affect the ISDRA or not? I was under the impression that it would. WTF is going on in here 25bangin.gif

1174838[/snapback]

anyone know for sure? icon_confused.gif

1175429[/snapback]

Well I dont think any of us know for sure. But I just dont see how it could...except for privately owned land within the isdra...but where is that?

Notwithstanding the above, this Chapter shall apply to locations..blaa blaa blaa

But what is this chapter? The chapter prohibits parking on private property unless certain permissions or permits have been obtained and displayed.

Edited by tom simrak

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Seems to me that the issues addressed by this proposed ordinance are already covered by trespass law, which is far more established constitutionally. And basic trespass law says that unless specifically posted or otherwise restricted (i.e., fences, walls, etc) you are not trespassing unless you are asked to leave.... and refuse. I know this is a gross oversimplification, but that's it in a nutshell. Requiring prior approval, and written evidence thereof, to operate/park on private property is, IMHO, unconstitutional prior restraint.

For instance, there is an exception for "public" roadways... but no allowance for easements on private land. So, let's say, your property is wholly contained within the property of another person, and there is no public road through his property to yours. Even if there is a privately-owned road, you would still be in violation unless you had written prior approval to enter. An excellent example would be a condo or mobile-home owner. The streets within the development are on private property, therefore not "public." Again, the trespass standard applies here, with ample precedent and established enforcement mechanisms. Why duplicate it?

Ditto the exception for federal land under joint jurisdiction agreements, i.e., the ISDRA. You're required to have the pass. It's supposed to be displayed in such-and-such manner. There is already an enforcement mechanism (it may not work, but that's another issue entirely). We don't need another *municipal* code to address what's already on the books at the state and federal level. You could also reasonably argue "double jeopardy" if there's a criminal penalty, however remote, for non-compliance.

Just my $.02... boy I need to cut down on the caffeine blink.gif

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Can anyone explain to me why the BLM wouldn't set their own policies to begin with? Is it that much harder than dealing with the ICSO and their pals at the BoS?

If it does affect the ISDRA my big concern would lie in that statement of "any and all additional..." that, as I see it, would give the BLM free reign to do whatever their black little hearts desired.

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