The Transaxle Thread

[EmpirE231]

What’s the scoop on the Sadev (sp?) trans? Looks pretty trick, saw one on a new alumicraft.

 

[Greg Rakes]

What’s the scoop on the Sadev (sp?) trans? Looks pretty trick, saw one on a new alumicraft.

SL923 TRANSAXLE -

Discover the SL923 is part of the latest generation of sand sport transmissions SADEV, combining experience and new technology, at the best price on the market. SADEV, driven by innovation, defined by performance.

www.sadev-tm.com

I think this one.

 

[SeanRitchie]

What’s the scoop on the Sadev (sp?) trans? Looks pretty trick, saw one on a new alumicraft.

Starting at $50k. It's a very nice trans, Sadev know's how to make a good gearbox, and I have no doubts that they will work well, but they don't know the market. I am not sold on the Sadev units for the long term.

Albins and Fortin already have a very nice gearbox in the $40k-$50k range for the high end market. The Albins has proven it's strength until some of these cars started pushing 2000 HP, which is why they redesigned and came out with the AGB R4. The Weddle S4D units have been proving their strength in cars up to 1500 HP over the past 5 years, and at $20k, they are bargain in my opinion. I just don't see a market for a 3rd high end unit.

It is very odd to me that they (Sadev) looked at this market and decided to get in on it, when there are already 3 other manufactures (Albins, Fortin, Weddle) making strong, high end transaxles for a very niche market. The three established manufactures are only selling a handful of units per year, they are definitely not selling 100's of units per year that would allow room for another manufacture to squeeze in and take over some market share.

Most manufactures have to make parts in runs of 50-100 pcs of each part to keep the cost of production low. That is 50-100 gearboxes worth of housings, gears, R&P, diff parts, etc. That is a very large investement (ask me how I know with the Weddle HV-2 program) Even if they manage to sell 10 units per year, that is 5-10 years worth of parts sitting on the shelf that waiting to sell. That seems like a rather big risk for a small market.

It is also very strange to me that Fortin signed a deal with Sadev to distribute and service them, when they already have their own competing transaxle at a similar price point. What is their incentive to sell the Sadev against their own? It doesn't make much sense to me.

Time will tell how the service-ability and parts availability will be for these in the next 5-10 years as they get used and worn out. If you think Albins and Fortin parts are expensive to replace...

 

[SLIM]

Website says they make their own gears in house. Seems like a bonus, no need to rely on a supplier when you are the supplier.
Maybe they make gears for Fortin also, got a deal to be a dealer/service center ?

 

[SeanRitchie]

Website says they make their own gears in house. Seems like a bonus, no need to rely on a supplier when you are the supplier.
Maybe they make gears for Fortin also, got a deal to be a dealer/service center ?
View attachment 160197

Sadev makes everything in house other than bearings, seals, and some other common goods. They recently went on a buying spree in Europe and bought up a bunch of their suppliers so they own everything they need to produce their product.

Fortin has typically used Hewland to make their gears, but that may change with the Sadev partnership?

Albins has always made their own gears (widely known secret that they have made Weddle gears since '93)

Producing parts in house does not necessarily mean parts can be made "at will" at any given time. These manufactures don't typically set up a machine to make one part, they will make a run of parts to make the setup time worth it.

 

[Reece Pettersen]

Starting at $50k. It's a very nice trans, Sadev know's how to make a good gearbox, and I have no doubts that they will work well, but they don't know the market. I am not sold on the Sadev units for the long term.

Albins and Fortin already have a very nice gearbox in the $40k-$50k range for the high end market. The Albins has proven it's strength until some of these cars started pushing 2000 HP, which is why they redesigned and came out with the AGB R4. The Weddle S4D units have been proving their strength in cars up to 1500 HP over the past 5 years, and at $20k, they are bargain in my opinion. I just don't see a market for a 3rd high end unit.

It is very odd to me that they (Sadev) looked at this market and decided to get in on it, when there are already 3 other manufactures (Albins, Fortin, Weddle) making strong, high end transaxles for a very niche market. The three established manufactures are only selling a handful of units per year, they are definitely not selling 100's of units per year that would allow room for another manufacture to squeeze in and take over some market share.

Most manufactures have to make parts in runs of 50-100 pcs of each part to keep the cost of production low. That is 50-100 gearboxes worth of housings, gears, R&P, diff parts, etc. That is a very large investement (ask me how I know with the Weddle HV-2 program) Even if they manage to sell 10 units per year, that is 5-10 years worth of parts sitting on the shelf that waiting to sell. That seems like a rather big risk for a small market.

It is also very strange to me that Fortin signed a deal with Sadev to distribute and service them, when they already have their own competing transaxle at a similar price point. What is their incentive to sell the Sadev against their own? It doesn't make much sense to me.

Time will tell how the service-ability and parts availability will be for these in the next 5-10 years as they get used and worn out. If you think Albins and Fortin parts are expensive to replace...

One thing I thought was cool about the Sandev is that you can inspect the dogs without tearing the transmission apart. Also, it looks much smaller than the Albins. I’m curious to see how it holds up.

 

[EmpirE231]

One thing I thought was cool about the Sandev is that you can inspect the dogs without tearing the transmission apart. Also, it looks much smaller than the Albins. I’m curious to see how it holds up.

The smaller footprint is also supposed to be a benefit according to some builders as you (in theory), might be able to drop the trans out the bottom without removing your motor.

 

[SeanRitchie]

The smaller footprint is also supposed to be a benefit according to some builders as you (in theory), might be able to drop the trans out the bottom without removing your motor.

You can this with an Albins and VW bell housing. That's how Jimco used to build all of their Class 1 cars. But then you're limited to small diameter clutch packages.

 

[trumanbuckley1]

Volkwagen Type 2 (Bus) Transaxles:

The Type 2 (Bus) transaxle is actually spread across many variations and years of production. There are three common variations used in off-road buggy's. All Type 2 transaxles can typically handle around 250 HP at the crank when fully built with aftermarket gears, with no larger than 33" tires in a common sand car application.

002 transaxles were produced from 1968 to 1975. These are commonly known as 3-rib and 5-rib transaxle due to the number of cross ribs on the top of the main differential housing. The more ribs across the top, the stronger the housings. These use a larger R&P than the Type 1 trans, but use the exact same 1st-4th gears. The larger R&P means stronger gears, and lower overall ratio's which work best for off-road buggy's with larger tires.

091 transaxles were produced from 1976-1983 and are probably the most common to use in off-road buggy's. Commonly referred to as a "6-rib" trans. These use the same size R&P as the 002 models, but have larger differential gears, and wider 1st-4th gears for the most strength. (Note that 1980-1983 model years have the shifter located on the side of the nosecone, rather than directly out the front of the nosecone. These can be converted to front shift with a full teardown and rebuild of earlier shift parts and housings)

094 transaxles were produced from 1984 to 1992, actually labeled as 091/1 from VW and have 091 part numbers in the castings. These are commonly referred to as "Waterboxer" transaxles due to being the first model that used a water-cooled engine the in the Vanagon busses. These are also known as a "side-shift" trans as the shifter is located on the passenger side of the main case and will require a special adapter to connect a shift rod. The biggest advantage to these units is having a strong reverse gear that can actually be used if stuck, where earlier models have a very small, weak reverse gear that can break very easily.

Oil Capacity: 3.7 Quarts

094/Vanagon transaxle with side shift adapter installed.View attachment 1897

Is there any good sources of information for the 3 rib case 091/094 internal transaxle out of the TDI vanagons? Wondering if it’s the same case dimensions and mounting as a 3 rib but just 6 rib internals or what the difference is. https://www.facebook.com/share/1D1EGA1i4K/?mibextid=wwXIfr

 

[SeanRitchie]

Is there any good sources of information for the 3 rib case 091/094 internal transaxle out of the TDI vanagons? Wondering if it’s the same case dimensions and mounting as a 3 rib but just 6 rib internals or what the difference is. https://www.facebook.com/share/1D1EGA1i4K/?mibextid=wwXIfr

A bit of confusion in your questions:

1. A "3-Rib" is a 1969-1971 002 bus trans. This has the same size gears as a Type 1 Beetle trans with larger R&P.

2. A "5-Rib" is a 1972-1975 002 bus trans. Same gears, but splined 3-4 hub and stronger case.

3. A "6-Rib" is a 1975-1983.5" 091 bus trans. This has larger forward gears and differential gears (same size R&P as a 002 bus, but taller ratio for more strength), with strongest case.

Note: The 3-rib, 5-rib, and 6-rib cases are all interchangeable between 002 and 091 gearsets. It's the gear carrier housing (intermediate housing between maincase and nosecone) that determine what gears get loaded into the transaxle. Check the part number on the GCH to know what trans you actually have.

4. The 091-1/094 is the 1984+ "waterboxer/Vanagon" trans with full size reverse gears. This has the same size gears and R&P as the 091 trans. These are the best to use for off-road, but low 3rd gear ratio's are limited and they require the Weddle shift linkage adapter as the shifter linkage is located on the side of the trans case.